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Mayoral candidates clash on abilities, accomplishments

By B.J. Reyes

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 10:16 a.m. HST, Jul 18, 2012



With their positions on major issues already established in previous debates, the three main candidates for Hono­lulu mayor took turns Tuesday swiping at each other's leadership style, abilities and accomplishments in office during a debate broadcast live.

Tuesday night's forum on KHON2 marked the fourth and final live, televised debate for Mayor Peter Carlisle, former city Managing Director Kirk Caldwell and former two-term Gov. Ben Cayetano.

On the key issue of rail, Carlisle again questioned Cayetano's ability to stop the project if elected.

"You can't veto the City Charter," Carlisle said. "That's not legal."

Cayetano scoffed at the notion that executive veto power could not be used to kill the project, adding that he would put the issue back on the ballot if necessary. "The fact that I am elected will be considered a mandate by the City Council that the people want this project stopped," Cayetano said.

Caldwell again staked out the middle ground on rail, saying he would work within the guidelines of the approved environmental impact statement to lessen the visual impact of the train.

Caldwell and Cayetano jumped on Carlisle over the poor condition of the city's roads, with Cayetano saying that a friend visiting from Sri Lanka recently remarked that Hono­lulu's roads were comparatively worse. Both accused Carlisle of reducing the budget for road projects, which Carlisle has said was needed to bring down city debt.

"Our roads are in really bad shape," Caldwell said, saying that current interest rates make it advisable to borrow money for badly needed road repairs. "I would not be concerned about bending the debt curve on road maintenance."

Carlisle and Cayetano questioned Caldwell's ability to negotiate reasonable contracts for the city with public worker unions. Caldwell has received virtually all of the endorsements from public worker unions.

"He has made so many promises, so many commitments to special-interest groups that he just doesn't know how to say no," Carlisle said.

They also questioned his accomplishments while working in the mayor's office. Caldwell was managing director for 22 months, the last three as acting mayor following Mufi Hannemann.

While Caldwell defended his record of expediting road repairs, heading up a task force on parks cleanup and pushing for a mayor's Office of Housing, Cayetano attacked him for an increase in real property tax rates and for letting the sewer system fall into disrepair.

"You're blaming Peter. You had the best opportunity to deal with it," Cayetano said.

Carlisle said that in virtually all of his prior dealings with the city, he rarely had any contact with Caldwell, charging that the main business of the city was done by Hannemann and another assistant.

Caldwell shot back at Carlisle, making note of reversals on various decisions made under the mayor's watch, including the change in site selection of the next solid-waste landfill to Kahuku after it originally was announced for Kailua, the reversal of a temporary moratorium on new sewer hookups in Central Oahu and a change this week in some bus cutbacks.

"This is an example of a hands-off management style," Caldwell said. "You don't know what's going on in the city."

The testiest exchange was between Carlisle and Cayetano, when the mayor raised the issue of the "pay-to-play" culture that existed in the 1990s, in which political donations were seen as a way to win government contracts. A pro-rail group has targeted Cayetano for his last gubernatorial campaign, which received more than $500,000 donated illegally.

The Campaign Spending Commission has said the donors were punished and that Cayetano did nothing illegal.

"Give me a break, Peter," Cayetano snapped. "I had nothing to do with this."






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what wrote:
Cayetano is Honolulu's best hope for saving the people from being strangled by ever increasing taxes to pay for the most expensive per capita rail system in the country, perhaps the world! Honolulu is a small city, and the cost per taxpayer to build the rail is ten times more than other cities pay! We are already cutting back bus service, how are we going to pay for an outrageously expensive rail system? It will not even make a dent in traffic congestion. Cayetano will ensure that our money is wisely spent smartly on other more effective methods to reduce traffic congestion such as focusing on upgrading our city's infrastrucutre. He is the best hope for fixing the sad state of our crumbling roads.
on July 18,2012 | 01:40AM
what wrote:
Honolulu is not just buying an expensive rail system. Honolulu is buying a rail system costing TEN TIMES more than other cities pay per taxpayer. Stop the crazy stupid spending! Vote Cayetano. He'll fix the potholes too.
on July 18,2012 | 01:59AM
KeithHaugen wrote:
Carlisle and Caldwell spent as much money as fast as they could with faulty premature contracts, a phony hurry-up ground breaking and giving hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to their friends so they could say "It's too late; you can't stop us from starting the railroad to nowhere; take that, people, we don't care what you think." BEN will find a way. He will stop this monumental waste of potentially billions of dollars. The temporary mayor and former acting mayor will learn that the PEOPLE rule. We will elect someone (BEN) who represents US, not their special interests, John White, PRP, et al. Vote Ben on August 11 and save us billions of dollars and the embarrassment of letting Caldwell and Carlisle get away with this scam.
on July 18,2012 | 06:28AM
wiliki wrote:
We are not ahead of schedule. Critics of rail like Lingle and Ben have delayed rail for years....
on July 18,2012 | 06:56AM
Truther wrote:

YES he Can and Yes he will!

VOTE for BEN and SAVE BILLIONS.


$7,000,000,000.00 and Counting.


on July 18,2012 | 07:34AM
NITRO08 wrote:
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? ANOTHER LONG FIGHT IN THE COURTS SPENDING MORE OF THE MONEY!
on July 18,2012 | 08:19AM
sleepingdog wrote:
No need to spend money on court costs if the rail project is stopped sooner.
on July 18,2012 | 09:21AM
aomohoa wrote:
You are wrong and if you are not it won't cost billions to fight!
on July 18,2012 | 09:38AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
Caytano's bus plan is ridiculous! It will create more traffic and accidents on the roads thereby making commute time longer. At least with rail, we will have an ALTERNATIVE! if there's an accident on H1, and I need to get to the airport to catch a flight, I can take the train. It's amazing how provincial thinking the people of Honolulu are.
on July 18,2012 | 11:38AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
@thevisitor -- An alternative? $5 billion to ride 20 miles? Where are you visiting from...Mars?
on July 18,2012 | 02:15PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney, "thevisitor967"
on July 18,2012 | 02:06PM
wondermn1 wrote:
Go Ben Go
on July 18,2012 | 09:00PM
jkjones wrote:
The rail project was hastly put together. Incompetent planning, undersight, vague in many areas and fraught with shaddy characters and sweetheart deals. Once Ben is elected, and the power in DC is shifted, we shall see a DOJ investigation initiated and county officials who were co-opted, ducking for cover.Hopefully, these crooks will get their due....the CHU CHU scam is unraveling....
on July 18,2012 | 09:11AM
aomohoa wrote:
You are so right jkjones:)
on July 18,2012 | 09:39AM
wondermn1 wrote:
spot on jkjones & aomohoa the RAILS A RUSTIN
on July 18,2012 | 09:01PM
thevisitor967 wrote:
You are so WRONG.
on July 18,2012 | 11:40AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
You are so WRONGER (go ahead, I grew up with three sisters. You'll never win)
on July 18,2012 | 03:00PM
aomohoa wrote:
They did push the start. If they had nothing to worry about, why not wait until the election and not waste the money they have wasted on a project that will be stopped? Kickbacks and scams is what this is about.
on July 18,2012 | 09:37AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
No--stupidity of Cayetano's supporters is what this is about.
on July 18,2012 | 11:41AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Trash talk from a new paid rail blogger.
on July 18,2012 | 02:08PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
Are sure you he's new? It'll take a while, but eventually the old writing style will come out.
on July 18,2012 | 03:01PM
Imagen wrote:
@wiliki: "We have to live today by what truth we can get today and be ready for tomorrow to call it falsehood. ~ William James, Author (1842-1891)" So, what happened to your previous comments about rail being on time and on budget. Now you say there are delays because of Lingle and Ben. So what then will be your excuse(s) when your moronic project goes WAY over budget (and it will)? Unfortunately, if you pro railers have your way, Oahu will not know just how much we were duped until it's too late - which could very well be "tomorrow".
on July 18,2012 | 10:15AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
A day late and a dollar short. It's Hawaii.
on July 18,2012 | 02:10PM
saveparadise wrote:
Ben is clearly the best overall candidate. The local people must not be taken on this train ride in which everyone pays too much. This train is a symbol which represents no hope of taxes or cost of living ever receding on Oahu. High tide will be here to stay. How many of us will remain afloat? No mo nuff life rafts for everbody..........
on July 18,2012 | 12:33PM
CouncilmanBerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWR8y13Xus let's hope the full funding grant agreement comes to the next mayor's desk in January- then it is simple, Ben does not sign it- and walllah- rail is dead. Watch youtube- explains all. Net mayor can indeed stop the rail. Go Ben GO.
on July 18,2012 | 01:10PM
nalogirl wrote:
Thank you Mr. Berg, keep up the good work!
on July 18,2012 | 02:10PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
GO TOM GO.
on July 18,2012 | 02:20PM
saveparadise wrote:
Mahalo for your efforts Mr. Berg!
on July 18,2012 | 02:27PM
shoogz wrote:
Thanks Mr. Berg for your commitment on this issue. You are honorable, too bad I can't say as much for some of your colleagues.
on July 18,2012 | 04:07PM
wondermn1 wrote:
GREAT JOB IN BRINGING INFO OUT MR BERG. GO TOM, BERG GO
on July 18,2012 | 09:03PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Question....For Mr Cayetano...When was the last time you rode the Bus? cayetaNO, looking around...For me? He answers...Yes, Gina says... Ahhhh, 40, 50 years? He answers with a question look. Ahhhhh.
on July 18,2012 | 04:18PM
MalamaKaAina wrote:
IN BEN WE TRUST!
on July 18,2012 | 02:03AM
wondermn1 wrote:
With our help and a large Majority of the people on Oahu that do not have special interest and conflicts of interest we can and will STOP THE RAIL IN TIS TRACKS. They have a short memory Just a while back they said cheaper to tear it down than wait, Or was that another Lie? It does not seem to stop, lies, lies and more lies to cover upt he origianal lies. So far the ethics commision has found Nester Garcia guilty of corruption and financial conflicts of interest. Masnyu more will fall in the months to come. Look at the ties from HART, Yoshioka, Horner, Hamayasu etc, etc, etc it goes on and on. The money pot has turned Hawaii into a take what you can and people be dammed mentality rather than whats right. Tthe prosecuter needs to look at this along with the attorney general and they will find Malfeasance at ecvery step of the RAIL and now HART.
on July 18,2012 | 05:41AM
wondermn1 wrote:
Go Ben Go, Go Tom Berg Go and Go Kia'aina Go lets clean up this mess in August and November. Vote the crooks out who are stealing our childrens future TAX MONIES
on July 18,2012 | 05:44AM
wiliki wrote:
Without rail our children have no future....
on July 18,2012 | 06:57AM
Kalli wrote:
Then we are in deep doo doo because rail is dead.
on July 18,2012 | 07:14AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
How's that? Please explain.
on July 18,2012 | 08:16AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
By "our" he means the keiki of developers/masons/etc.
on July 18,2012 | 02:23PM
DPK wrote:
wiliki: "thou dost protest too much". It sounds like without rail, you have no future.
on July 18,2012 | 08:43AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Lol DPK.
on July 18,2012 | 09:33AM
jkjones wrote:
with rail, our kupuna will be hitchhiking....or standing.
on July 18,2012 | 09:13AM
frontman wrote:
the youth of Hawaii walk no where. So better lock your cars as Ben will STOP RAIL.
on July 18,2012 | 09:19AM
saveparadise wrote:
jones, I would rather ride the Bus or Handyvan which is so much more convenient for a senior. The train route is nowhere near my home nor does it come close to my destinations.
on July 18,2012 | 12:40PM
frontman wrote:
Only the ones that go to public schools.
on July 18,2012 | 09:17AM
sleepingdog wrote:
The complete quote is: "Without rail our children have no future debts."
on July 18,2012 | 09:23AM
aomohoa wrote:
Are you still being paid to say this garbage? You'll be out of your blogging job soon. We can't wait to see you go bye bye.
on July 18,2012 | 09:40AM
Ronin006 wrote:
Then stop having kids.
on July 18,2012 | 11:12AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Kind of hard when the current Mayor was the prosecutor, and he's burying his head in the sand.
on July 18,2012 | 05:45AM
saveparadise wrote:
I thought he was a pretty good prosecutor and he should go back to what he was doing. The rush to spend billions of taxpayer money on this train is a scandal that will be remembered for years after we kill it or forever if it comes to pass.
on July 18,2012 | 12:47PM
wondermn1 wrote:
Go Ben Go, Go Tom Berg Go & Go Kia'aina Go look up Kia'aina and you will find she is much more honest than TULSI OR MUFI and she actually knows and does her job.
on July 18,2012 | 09:07PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
GO BEN GO
on July 18,2012 | 02:20PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Mr.cayetaNO,...."Yes ahhh, this question is for ahhhhh, (Looking at Kirk Caldwell), ahhhh, Mr. Ahhhhhh, Kirk.".
on July 18,2012 | 04:14PM
atilter wrote:
isn't "nanakuli boss" an o-x-y-m-o-r-o-n?
on July 18,2012 | 07:08PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:32PM
ukuleleblue wrote:
Rail benefits everybody for the following reasons: 1) Rail provides a transportation alternative for those who cannot drive or do not wish to drive in traffic. 2) Rail provides a faster ride than buses through congested areas. Elevated rail has its own right-of-way and will not get stuck in clogged surface streets as buses. 3) Rail can carry a higher volume of people faster between any of the stops along its route. 4) When car drivers take the rail, there are less cars on the road which alleviates traffic congestion for other drivers. 5) Building the rail will create jobs and provide billions of dollars in economic activity. 6) The federal government will provide $1.55 billion of free rail subsidy which helps our economy. 7) Rail is the greenest form of transportation. We should be committed to building the rail and be confident that we can afford it. Rail is a needed infrastructure which will help alleviate our traffic problem and stimulate our economy with sorely needed jobs. Build rail now for the future. Rail projects are always opposed when planned but never regretted after they are built. We need rail for a better quality of life for our children and grandchildren.
on July 18,2012 | 02:22AM
MalamaKaAina wrote:
ukuleleblue comments are laughable!
on July 18,2012 | 03:04AM
beachbum11 wrote:
Right, he or she is a BIG joke.
on July 18,2012 | 06:42AM
wiliki wrote:
The truth needs to be stated to set the record straight.
on July 18,2012 | 06:58AM
jkjones wrote:
put down the bong wiliki.
on July 18,2012 | 09:14AM
aomohoa wrote:
I know you are just trying to save your blogging job, so I won't say you are high, you're just desperate.
on July 18,2012 | 09:44AM
Imagen wrote:
@wiliki: then please say it..."THE TRUTH"!
on July 18,2012 | 10:21AM
NITRO08 wrote:
NO IT'S TRUE!
on July 18,2012 | 08:20AM
aomohoa wrote:
Don't be too offended, ukuleblue is a paid blogger, I'm sure. He fears he will be losing his job soon. Good ridden to him.
on July 18,2012 | 09:43AM
kailuabred wrote:
Funny, you all call him/her a paid blogger; yet, all of those against rail are not? I see the same 5-10 people every day posting anti-rail comments. It never changes.
on July 18,2012 | 10:59AM
wondermn1 wrote:
We are not paid Bloggers I do this to save Honolulu from the biggest BOONDOGGLE in history the pro-railers have the Unions and HART to pay them with our tax money what a waste
on July 18,2012 | 09:09PM
thevisitor967 wrote:
@aomohoa: And why don't you find a better paying job so you can afford to pay taxes and wouldn't need to grumble about it on the boards?!
on July 18,2012 | 11:48AM
Kuniarr wrote:
amohoa got yah, didn't he, "thevisitor967"? That you and Ukuleleblue would be losing your employer soon?
on July 18,2012 | 02:10PM
loquaciousone wrote:
CUT AND PASTE, CUT AND PASTE -- Rail benefits only greedy developers and pay for play politicians for the following reasons it's totally useless for everyone else: 1) Rail provides a extra money for contractors to eat at Zippys. 2) Rail provides a nothing useful that the bus is not already providing. Elevated rail are a blight on our aina and makes too much noise and dust. 3) Rail cannot possibly take the place of buses because they only travel in a straight line from point A to point B, everyone else has to drive their cars. 4) When car drivers take the rail, they would have to make at least three transfers to get to their destination adding an extra hour to their commute. 5) Building the rail will create jobs for contractors only and if you own a cement company and provide nothing for everyone else. 6) The federal government will not provide $1.55 billion because the City has not shown how it's going to pay for it. 7) Rail is the dirty, noisy and time consuming and waste of everyones time. We should be committed to building stopping the rail and because we cannot afford it. Rail is not needed because therer is no infrastructure to support it and building more will cost too muc. Build rail now and it will destroy the future of our children who will be forced to pay for it in higher property taxes, higher user fees for everything, no opala trucks because we cannot afford to buy new ones and giant pot holes that cannot be filled up because the rail will suck up all the resources available.
on July 18,2012 | 03:55AM
jayz43 wrote:
On August 11th your vote is CRUCIAL for all residents who don’t want generations of their family to be saddled with the enormous DEBT of building and maintaining Rail. It seems the ADDED COSTS of rail continue to rise with every City revelation: now property taxes may very well DOUBLE because of rail and cost of upkeep, inevitable groping and mischief on packed shoulder-to-shoulder rush hour scenarios will necessitate an added authority’s presence and ADDED COST, and unforeseen maintenance ADDED COSTS which also befell Halawa Stadium’s steel exposure to Hawaii’s salt air. Rail could become another bottomless pit of maintenance ADDED COSTS. “We the people” have the power to END this rail nightmare contrived by Mufi Hannemann and backed by big business leaders in Hawaii. For those who oppose rail and those who want an END to the draconian service cuts to The Bus, on August 11th vote for Ben Cayetano for Mayor and END THIS INSANITY.
on July 18,2012 | 04:54AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
Added costs of rail? The most recent financial plan, approved by the FTA, showed the cost of the project had gone down. More than half of the contracts (the major project cost) have been awarded and they came in $300 million UNDER BUDGET. The project is running a surplus and will finish with a surplus according to current trends and projections, again approved by the FTA.
on July 18,2012 | 05:42AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Operations and Maintenance are all costs incurred by a rail system, and it is now coming out that those costs are additionally going to burden the taxpayers with another almost 6 billion pricetag. You know that with low ridership (because people are not going to all of a sudden give up their cars) the cost for taxpayers will be way more than even we can handle. TIme for the rich to start paying their share of taxes.
on July 18,2012 | 05:53AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
That's completely false. Every mode in the transit system has O&M costs and rail costs make up a much smaller percentage of the overall transit budget (bus, rail and handi-van) than rail. For example, in the year 2025, bus operating and maintenance costs will be $321 million, handi-van O&M costs will be &79 million and rail O&M will be $121 million, with $4 million in other O&M cost. The total transit system O&M cost that year will be $518 million. Rail's portion ($121 M) makes up 23% of that. All data is from Table A-2 on Appendix A, page 3 (A-3) of the Final Financial Plan for Full Funding Grant Agreement submitted and accepted by the FTA in June 2012. Thanks for playing.
on July 18,2012 | 06:20AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Blues...Monday's article says it all.
on July 18,2012 | 06:45AM
wiliki wrote:
Facts are facts.... rail is the smallest percentage of the operations and maintenance.
on July 18,2012 | 07:02AM
hybrid1 wrote:
$7 Billion rail must have buses to provide rides to the rail station and additional express buses to eliminate H-1 bottlenecks . BRT buses alone will eliminate the H-1 bottlenecks and does not need the $7 Billion Rail.................. Ops and maintenance cost for BRT Buses ONLY is cheaper than cost for RAIL COMBINED WITH BUSES. Simple as that. Don't forget the big gorilla cost of $7 Billion for rail compared with $40 million for buses only.
on July 18,2012 | 09:31AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Facts are facts. The O&M of trains is not and never the "O&M of trains alone" but the "O&M of trains and additional bus and handi-van fleet to the current bus and handi-van fleet to bring riders to and from each of the 21 rail stations".
on July 18,2012 | 09:35AM
Kuniarr wrote:
BluesBreaker, you failed to breakdown the O&M of Bus/handi-van to (1) Bus/Handi-Van ATTACHED to rail O&M - meaning serving the 21 rail stations (2) Bus/Handi-Van that serves the entire island of Oahu and not serving the 21 rail stations.
on July 18,2012 | 11:27AM
jkjones wrote:
blues is suffering from another delusional attack. The only thing that is "under" relating to the rail is the rampant graft activity existing under the table.
on July 18,2012 | 09:17AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
At least blues provides hard facts. What do you provide? Nothing but unfounded comments based on stupidity.
on July 18,2012 | 11:53AM
Kuniarr wrote:
what hard facts?
on July 18,2012 | 02:11PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Attack! Delusional attic.
on July 18,2012 | 04:21PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:47PM
Kuniarr wrote:
The financial plan reveals that the true cost of rail is a whopping and gargantuan $13.29 billion ($5.26 billion to build and an O&M of $8.03 billion - $5.87 billion to subsidize and $2.16 from fare box revenue).
on July 18,2012 | 09:32AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Rail is practically free, right Bluesy?
on July 18,2012 | 09:34AM
aomohoa wrote:
Now you must be high as a kite or another pro rail blogger that will be losing his job soon.
on July 18,2012 | 09:45AM
Grimbold wrote:
You believe in Santa? This project will go way over the budget, as most government projects in Hawaii.
on July 18,2012 | 04:40PM
wondermn1 wrote:
spot on- good post jayz43- Go Ben Go
on July 18,2012 | 05:50AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
New property taxes may double because of rail upkeep? Rail operating and maintenance (O&M) costs are half those of the bus and handi-van. The bus system costs $0.80 per passenger mile; the rail will cost $0.40 PPM. The O&M costs for TheBus are rising at 3.62% a year, TheHandi-Van at 5.64% annually, and rail at only 2.52% per year. By the year 2025, operating costs for TheBus and Handi-Van will be more than triple the amount needed to operate rail, according to the FTA-approved fnancial plan.
on July 18,2012 | 05:52AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
It's simple in my mind. The City decided to hide the total costs involved with this choo choo so now that we are finding out the true costs, do we want that in addition to our bus system? First, the bus routes have to be restored to their original routes, and more express direct-route buses need to be added. Improve one thing first...as Kirk always says, we can bake it better.
on July 18,2012 | 06:09AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
You're confused. Rail construction has nothing to do with bus funds. Nothing. GET surcharge and fed funds pay for rail construction. City General Funds pay for bus operations, along with FTA Section 5307 dollars. Labor and fuel costs forced the bus to exceed the budgeted amount for O&M, That's why routes were cut back. The City could have raised fares to meet the additional cost.
on July 18,2012 | 06:28AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Blues--who's paying? All comes out of our pockets.
on July 18,2012 | 06:32AM
wiliki wrote:
GET taxes are like a state tax because they can only be used to finance rail. It would take a state law to use the money for something else.
on July 18,2012 | 07:08AM
sleepingdog wrote:
FTA Section 5307 money was moved from bus to rail, and that is why rail is responsible for underfunding the bus.
on July 18,2012 | 09:31AM
hybrid1 wrote:
TheBus service cuts ARE due to rail: The following excerpts from a letter by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) to the City make it clear that the City has to bring TheBus and HandiVan operating costs under control if it is ever to receive federal New Starts funding: “Regarding the Financial Capacity Assessment, FTA notes that the financial plan HART [Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation] submitted is sufficient to advance the project into final design. However, it must be further strengthened before FTA will consider awarding an FFGA [Full Funding Grant Agreement]. “Specifically, the financial plan states that additional revenues may be obtained from an extension of the General Excise Tax or implementation of value capture mechanisms. “However, these revenue sources require actions by the State of Hawaii and/or the City that have not been taken and which are beyond HART's ability to control. Prior to the Project's consideration for an FFGA, HART should demonstrate the availability of additional revenue sources that could be tapped should unexpected events such as cost increases or funding shortfalls occur. “Additionally, HART made assumptions in three areas that require further justification or amendment: (1) the containment of bus and HandiVan operating expenses; (2) the increasing share of the City's annual budget required to fund the transit system; and (3) the diversion of Section 5307 [bus purchasing] funds from preventive maintenance to the Project. Prior to the Project's consideration for an FFGA, HART should either provide further documentation justifying the reasonableness of these assumptions or consider revising these assumptions to more closely follow historical patterns.” (underline added). Here’s the link to the full letter. Source: honolulutraffic.com
on July 18,2012 | 09:35AM
Kuniarr wrote:
BluesBreaker, you are the one confused. The Federal Section 5307 Formula funding for bus has been diverted to rail construction. Want proof? Look up page 9 of Chapter 6 of the FEIS for proof. Look up this link: http://www.staradvertiser.com/newspremium/20120304_Transit_system_cost_estimate_could_be_way_off_ report_says.html
on July 18,2012 | 01:01PM
Kalli wrote:
But the point is that rail O&M costs will be added to bus costs. It is a net cost no matter how little you say it is of the entire transit budget. Without rail the bus system will be more efficient and cost less.
on July 18,2012 | 07:17AM
DPK wrote:
BB: Don't the bus and hand-van systems service the whole island?
on July 18,2012 | 08:51AM
Kuniarr wrote:
BluesBreaker, rail O&M comprises O&M of trains plus O&M of bus and handi-van attached to train operations, meaning all theses buses do is bring riders to and from the 21 rail stations to bus transit centers. Got that BluesBreaker? Why do you guys who are rail bloggers continue on and on with this baloney where you consider "Rail" as meaning "trains and trains only"?
on July 18,2012 | 12:55PM
frontman wrote:
Excellent post..............................
on July 18,2012 | 09:21AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
But it has been proven in major cities all over the world that transportation infrastructure with rail is superior to without rail.
on July 18,2012 | 06:31AM
wiliki wrote:
Rail is the high volume backbone of the system to which less speedy networks connect to.
on July 18,2012 | 07:09AM
Kuniarr wrote:
A high volume backbone is only appropriate in high density populated areas like NY and Chicago not low density populated areas like Leeward.
on July 18,2012 | 02:14PM
Kalli wrote:
I don't believe that please provide your resources. It certainly isn't true in Portland Oregon. The MAX runs empty most of the day but the costs are spread out over 3 million residents through their property taxes. Also it was built at grade at a very cheap cost per capita unlike Honolulus which will be the most expensive rail system ever built on earth (per capita).
on July 18,2012 | 07:20AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
Well, I can tell you it IS true in the SF Bay Area. Before BART was built, Northern Californians grumbled about rail too. Now, the BART trains are packed during rush hour traffic. And when there was an earthquake in the early 90s, how do you think the people from the East Bay got to San Francisco for work? They sure didn't take the Bay Bridge because it wasn't working. They took BART!
on July 18,2012 | 11:59AM
Kuniarr wrote:
BART is not Oahu. And this smal island of Oahu can not afford an $13.29 billion rail system. It is much cheaper to completely eliminate traffic congestion. In fact it is much cheaper and can relieve traffic congestion a whole lot better than rail simply by providing funding to obtain all the elements of the Intelligent Transportation System that is already in place in Honolulu. Not only will a full complement of ITS razzle dazzle the people of Oahu with the way it can relieve traffic congestion on the H1 24/7, 365 days a year but also make traffic move faster in downtown Honoloulu. Funding and Hiring of highly qualified technical people to accomplish the razzle dazzle of a fully integrated ITS with all its elements is far better than this focus on an overly and extremely expensive $13.29 billion rail system.
on July 18,2012 | 02:25PM
Synikal1 wrote:
Bart who? Bart Simpson?
on July 18,2012 | 07:55PM
DPK wrote:
UK blue: Not in Atlanta. The system is a deteriorating alternative, begging for ever more funding from taxes.
on July 18,2012 | 08:54AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
In comparison with the major cities, for example, Hong Kong, Manila, Tokyo, New York, etc..., population density, Honolulu's population density is merely a small dust spectacle. Will there be the ridership revenue needed to offset the cost of maintenance of the rail system? Do math.
on July 18,2012 | 09:23AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
At the time when the light rail was built in San Jose (in the late 80s), there were roughly 300,000 people living in San Jose. Compare that to almost a million people in Honolulu. Do math.
on July 18,2012 | 12:02PM
saveparadise wrote:
The million people in Honolulu do not go to work in Waianae. The distance between San Jose and San Fran is 48 miles which makes it more attractive for an alternative. Too much family, friends, and activities between the west side and Honolulu make it almost essential to drive your own vehicle. The train is an option for those with no vehicles which does not help the traffic situation.
on July 18,2012 | 01:00PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
VTA's 42.2-mile light rail line is one of the longest to be built in the U.S. in 50 years. And since you brought it up just how much did VTA cost per mile?
on July 18,2012 | 02:36PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
@thevisitor -- The San Jose extension to Eastridge is approximately 2.6 miles and the cost was $334 million. Based on that price the Honolulu Rail's 20 miles should cost less than $2.6 billion plus rail cars. Thanks for bringing VTA up. We need to know more rail system prices so we know we are not getting RIPPED OFF. GO BEN GO
on July 18,2012 | 02:52PM
Imagen wrote:
Only if you have the demographics and population to support it. Both of which Honolulu does NOT have, in comparison with the other metropolices of the world.
on July 18,2012 | 10:26AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney. UK, why do you keep on and on making grandiose claims for Rail which it is not? That 20-mile stretch of rail tracks does reach every corner of this island. Moreover, all that rail in Honolulu does is nothing more than transport people from one rail station to another rail station. Our highways, roads and bridges are transportation infrastructure far superior to a single 20-mile stretch of rai.
on July 18,2012 | 01:07PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
Hey Kuniarr...how much does that 20 mile rail cost per mile?
on July 18,2012 | 02:53PM
Kuniarr wrote:
By the way, "that 20-mile stretch of rail tracks does NOT reach every corner of this small island". At the eye-pooping cost of $13.29 billion for 20 miles, that's a mind boggling $664.5 million per mile which we the taxpayers of Oahu can not afford. Best Kill Rail and Eliminate traffic congestion and be done with all this talk about traffic congestion.
on July 18,2012 | 05:31PM
false wrote:
ukuleleblue, go out to Dole Plantation or Ko Olina and ride their choo-choo and get your fix. No choo choo should cost $6 billion. Problem is you guys have no concept of a billion. All you see in the $6 and you aren't seeing all the zeroes beyond. Car sales people do that all the time. See $6 billion looks like this $6,000,000,000. We don't have the kind of resource development for that debt. $0,000,000,000 is what we have. You have that much sense.
on July 18,2012 | 04:25AM
wondermn1 wrote:
We have seen our fees and taxes allready rise because of this Boondoggle. The sooner we stop this thing the better. The change orders and the rising costs will resurface as soon as the election is over unless we STOP THIS MONSTER IN ITS TRACKS. How many projects stay under or at budget in the real world. How many people believe that the City and County will be able to maintain or for that matter even build this thing thru the city areas. In the middle of our farm fields maybe but as soon as we get to populated areas look out. Traffic will be horrible for years and all of our TAXES AND FEES WILL RISE FOREVER. Go Ben Go
on July 18,2012 | 05:58AM
hawaiinui wrote:
BTW, anyone taking in the sites and spending some on that Historic Railway Society rides in Ewa will be surprised to hear that their train runs at 25 mph...the same clip that the $5 BILLION rail that has yet to be built! Talk about a slow boat (I mean, rail) to China. And like "false" just said, a few bucks should take care of anyone's need to ride the rail. Makes more sense and is alot cheaper.
on July 18,2012 | 06:11AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
Rail transit trains will operate at speeds of 55 MPH and greater.
on July 18,2012 | 06:29AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
If the trains operated at 55mph, they will miss a lot of stops along the way. One mile for each stop is not a long distance...how can they go that fast? Can't slow down. Oh, I could just see it, everyone flying because the rail had to come to a quick stop.
on July 18,2012 | 06:48AM
wiliki wrote:
BART speeds up to 60 mph on some parts of the route. Accelerations are not abrupt. Passengers can just lean into the acceleration.
on July 18,2012 | 07:12AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
Thank you wiliki. I can't believe some of the stupid comments on this board.
on July 18,2012 | 12:04PM
Kuniarr wrote:
wiliki, there are 19 rail stations in the 20-mile stretch of rail between Kapolei and Ala Moana. You rail bloggers should spare us your flights of fantasy in justifying rail for what it can not do here in Oahu.
on July 18,2012 | 01:13PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
And go an AVERAGE speed of about 23 mph....
on July 18,2012 | 07:05AM
jkjones wrote:
Blues n dreams lament: "O ride da train in heaven, Unless Ben gets dea first."....Frank Delima.
on July 18,2012 | 09:23AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
Perhaps the speed will be the same as the Disneyland train. My de-restricted moped might be faster.
on July 18,2012 | 10:38AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
@AKULEMAN You might have a point there. H
on July 18,2012 | 03:41PM
atilter wrote:
"DE-RAIL DE RAIL"!
on July 18,2012 | 07:11PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney. You have 19 rail stations on a 20-mile stretch of rail. A train can not accelerate from zero to 55mph in a few seconds and then decelerate from 55 mph to zero in a one-mile or more stretch of rail.
on July 18,2012 | 01:10PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
The average speed of the rail transit system is 27 mph going the length of the route....including the 19 stops. It can go up to 60 mph in between. More deliberate misinformation.
on July 18,2012 | 08:42AM
jusjoking wrote:
true. oddly this misinfformation comes from two of the most prolific pro rail misinformationists
on July 18,2012 | 09:05AM
jkjones wrote:
the union shills have reported to work.
on July 18,2012 | 09:25AM
atilter wrote:
"DE-RAIL DE RAIL"!
on July 18,2012 | 05:00AM
kiragirl wrote:
De-rail Da Rail!
on July 18,2012 | 09:08AM
atilter wrote:
OKAY - SAME SMELLING , i mean spelling diff but means the same. lol
on July 18,2012 | 07:13PM
atilter wrote:
it's called alliteration?
on July 18,2012 | 10:04PM
soshaljustic wrote:
Ukeblue-the Feds should subsidize at least HALF if the Feds want it and demand it, for the citizens of Hawaii. If not, bring in the sunshine, so we can see a pot of gold at the end of a resulting rainbow. If not, can the choo choo and all the false hullabaloo too!
on July 18,2012 | 05:02AM
kumasachi wrote:
ukuleleblue read my lips IMUA TO NO RAIL !!!!!!!!
on July 18,2012 | 05:29AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
When is Frank Delima going to come out with a silly song about the rail?
on July 18,2012 | 05:55AM
soundofreason wrote:
The reality is MORE silly. Our govt is giving him competition.
on July 18,2012 | 06:55AM
kahuku01 wrote:
Uku, your paste-up continues and I can live with that.LOL The people of Oahu did not have a chance to exercise their certain inalienable rights because the city government mandated the 1/2 % surcharge since 2007. Is this how a democratic country controls their people? 1) For a mere 20 miles of rail, it is too expensive. 2) Rail will only have a fixed 20 mile direction. 3) Rail will be too expensive to maintain. 4) Rail will be used by a small percentage of people. Not EVERYBODY will benefit on Oahu. 5) Rail fares will be too costly especially for those that are on fixed income or below the poverty level. 6) Rail cars will be a prime target and challenge for Graffiti Specialists. 7) Finally, to build an expensive rail for the purpose of transporting people via the designated corridor during 4 hours a day (peak traffic) 5 days a week and 9 months out of the year, it will surely lose money and the city will be required to raise taxes to keep this deficit monster alive. Rail projects have been regretted after they were built especially due to the high cost of maintenance and low ridership.
on July 18,2012 | 05:38AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
The point is that everything always seems expensive at the present. We need to build rail now for the future. We have the financing in place and we need to bite the bullet and build it now so we don't keep looking back in hindsight. Rail projects everywhere have been opposed when planned but rail systems in operation now are not regretted. We have to keep regretting that we did not build it decades ago when the cost was lower. Build rail now and we will be very happy when it is finally built.
on July 18,2012 | 06:40AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Ukuleleblue wrote: "Rail projects everywhere have been opposed when planned but rail systems in operation now are not regretted."

How many times are you going to copy and paste the exact same pro-rail propaganda? The Tres Urbano train in San Juan is similar to our planned rail. It was vetted by the FTA and had the same unrealistic pie-in-the-sky ridership projections. They can't get people on it when fares are 100% subsidized by tax payers and that train has seats!
on July 18,2012 | 07:11AM
wiliki wrote:
Right... with a large system we have large numbers. That starts with our population of a million people on our island.
on July 18,2012 | 07:14AM
bluebowl wrote:
lol
on July 18,2012 | 08:40AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
I agree with Kalaheo1, it sounds like there is a parrot out there. Perhaps building the rail now is not my future as I don't want my taxes to go up for something I will not benefit from. Maybe those wonderful rail supports should contribute more taxes in favor of implementing this old technology; the rail systems have been around since the 1800s.
on July 18,2012 | 09:31AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
Well, I don't benefit from H3 but my taxes went to it. There's a lot of things that our taxes go to that we don't benefit from. But that's what taxes are all about.
on July 18,2012 | 12:08PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney. What were your so-called "taxes" that went to H3, "thevisitor967". You are a new rail blogger here in the forum.
on July 18,2012 | 01:17PM
jusjoking wrote:
WELCOME BACK AIEA 7. EVERYONE MISSED YOUR COMMENTS
on July 18,2012 | 01:47PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
I am betting it is Nanakuliboss. I think I remember him writing almost the same thing last week. I'll have to search it now.
on July 18,2012 | 03:44PM
MakaniKai wrote:
IRT kahuku01 Bravo to all your points - made by a logical and sane person. ukuleleblu is like the almighty wizard – PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN - This has become all smoke and mirrors. And e’nuff with the “before the H-3” The H-3 is born of the Eisenhower Interstate System and the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956. The H-3 was never intended as traffic relief. The volume of vehicles and traffic relief is merely a byproduct of its existence. The Support Rail NOW! commercial is the most nauseating one of all! They all look pretty comfy in their vehicles OBTW and braddah cruising up da Koolau remarking “I remember what it was like before the H-3” well so do I as I live leeward and work on the windward side driving over the mountain for over 25 years. IMHO driving habits are more irritating than the amount of vehicles. Aloha Oe Carlisle, No to Caldwell. Go Ben Go. Aloha
on July 18,2012 | 08:49AM
wondermn1 wrote:
Bye Bye Carlyle and take MUFI with you. We can and will stop the RAIL by voting in Ben and changing whatever laws need to be changed to stop the special interests
on July 18,2012 | 05:47AM
beachbum11 wrote:
And take that transplant with them. Kirk da jer with them another dishonest hack
on July 18,2012 | 06:49AM
hawaiinui wrote:
My goodness Uku, let me show you the "error of your (rail) ways"..in respnse to your 7 reasons for rail from my granddaughter and her high school debate team friends: Now out of the mouths of babes...1) Buses do the same and is CHEAPER. 2) Not so, buses stop 20 times (3 mins each time) and move at only 25 mph, buses BEAT rail. In case of a impending diaster, the rail shuts down and moves NO ONE moves. You'll get stuck and have to take the bus anyway to get home and/or high ground. 3) More buses would carry far more people and more comfortably. 4) Likewise with buses. 5) So will the construction of designated bus lanes (Federal funded at 100%). Rail has already started and where IS the jobs NOW? 6) $1.55 BILLION from the FEDS is still our money, paid for by us, not the tooth fairy and 7) Rail runs on OIL, contrary to the HART PR that said it would be using in GREEN methods (i.e. sun, wind energy)..
on July 18,2012 | 05:59AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
The difficulty is spreading the word to explain how rail will help us here as it does in major cities all over the world. Most locals here do not have experience riding rail transit systems. They envision a lot of hassle doing a lot of transferring to and from buses and walking to complete the trip to their destination. They think that a lot of stops along the route will make a slow trip. In reality, people all over the world use different steps in their commute as needed on a daily basis without complaint. How complicated and how long a trip is depends on where you live and where you are going. All things considered, rail will speed up the trip and move more people more efficiently. The many stops on the rail line are there to serve more locations and if you have ridden rail transit in other cities, you know the loading and unloading at stops is quick. With more seats, this rail system is going to be a joy to ride. Just imagine riding a sleek speedy train from the west side all the way to town with an ocean and mountain view whizzing by all the sorry cars stuck in traffic. When the rail is built, people will come and ride.
on July 18,2012 | 06:43AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
You keep saying that we have no experience riding rail systems, not true. It is a lot of hassle and a timewaster. 15 miles takes about an hour and 45 minutes to get to the city during rush hours, with transfers. Then there's still walking time to get to where you need to go. They have way better rail going in different directions, not like our one line rail. Cost is quite high, traffic is still terrible, Thunderstorms can make it shut down completely. Then there's all the strange scary looking people, and those that you'd not want to sit by. Why do you think many don't take the bus?. Peter said they will have police roaming...Ben said it was nowhere in the report.. Pete's just making it up as he goes along.
on July 18,2012 | 06:56AM
wiliki wrote:
Which is why PR is needed... most people have no concept of the rail and the facts about rail....
on July 18,2012 | 07:16AM
markat wrote:
PR = Propoganda
on July 18,2012 | 07:28AM
Kuniarr wrote:
You, wiliki, actually yourself has no concept about the facts on rail. For you keep spreading this baloney (1) "Rail is being financed with state and federal monies so it wont help city fiscal problems. This is a basic fact." (2) "we've already been paying for two years on the rail in terms of taxes.". You have yet to tell us where you got your bogus information nor give us a link to the source of your bogus information.
on July 18,2012 | 11:32AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Ukuleleblue wrote: "With more seats, this rail system is going to be a joy to ride."

More seats than what? An elevator?

You know that the train that Mufi was shown riding in his infamous "virtual train ride" was complete fiction and bears no relation to the cattle car that they chose, right?
on July 18,2012 | 07:16AM
jkjones wrote:
kalaheo1, good one brah.
on July 18,2012 | 10:44AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
It was a very wonderful experience riding rail trains (i.e., NYC subways & NJ Path); as I had, with cars defaced with graffiti and strange homeless and disorganized individuals after hours. By the way, the proposed Honolulu rail stations will not have a restrooms; bring your doggy bags.
on July 18,2012 | 09:38AM
MakaniKai wrote:
" disorganized individuals after hours" LOL! AKULEMAN you are right. I think I'll stay stuck in traffic while the train goes whizzing and wave from the comfort of my gas guzzling Silverado at Ukuleleblu et al. Aloha.
on July 18,2012 | 10:50AM
atilter wrote:
bet uku blu not goin' ride da choo-choo!
on July 18,2012 | 07:16PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Bus stops have restroom,akuleman?
on July 18,2012 | 04:29PM
atilter wrote:
attack? "nanakuli boss" isn't "nanakuli boss" an o-x-y-m-o-r-o-n?
on July 18,2012 | 07:19PM
atilter wrote:
attack? "nanakuli boss"? isn't that a rhetorical paradox? an o-x-y-m-o-r-o-n?
on July 18,2012 | 07:29PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:35PM
AKULEMAN wrote:
Just imagine riding rail cars defaced with graffiti like some mainland urban rail cars are (NYC Brooklyn and Queens subway cars). Although there has been many efforts by these cities to clean up these messes, graffiti artists love advertising their work of arts via moving objects for every one the see. Who will be paying for the cleanup expenses these wonderful artists provides; you guess it, your one of them via taxes. Don;t forget the concrete piles the rail supports will stand, these are excellent media for urban arts.
on July 18,2012 | 09:57AM
Imagen wrote:
No one here or anywhere else will disagree with you on the benefits of this system. For the umtheenth time; Rail COULD have been a viable system, HOWVER, it is the manner in which the project was an continues to be managed and handled. There are just too many lies and deception that tainted this project from the onset. The people are tired of being lied to and very blatantly I might add. Tim McGraw told Sandra Bullock in "The Blind Side", Michael is like an onion; you have to peel each layer to find what you are searching for. "Rail is like an onion; each peeled away reveals still another LIE"!
on July 18,2012 | 10:40AM
MakaniKai wrote:
.ukuleleblue wrote: "With more seats, this rail system is going to be a joy to ride. Just imagine riding a sleek speedy train from the west side all the way to town with an ocean and mountain view whizzing by all the sorry cars stuck in traffic" LMFAO dis aint the JR Shinkansen which OBTW is a joy to ride! Aloha.
on July 18,2012 | 10:44AM
Grimbold wrote:
Welfare people will ride the rail and deface it with graffiti.
on July 18,2012 | 04:45PM
Grimbold wrote:
No, you have it all wrong: No bus has to stop 3 minutes thats a fairy tale . In Germany buses run direct routes , mostly every ten to 20 minutes and stop at the most 15 to 20 seconds.. To get to the rail from your house in Hawaii you have to first wait for a bus ride to the rail station, then wait for the rail. When you get out, where are you headed? Use the bus again or walk a mile?
on July 18,2012 | 04:44PM
KeithHaugen wrote:
You add a little humor,Mr.Grabauskas, but we can see through your spin, untruths, bad guesses, etc.
on July 18,2012 | 06:29AM
beachbum11 wrote:
OH I THOUGHT THAT WAS KIRK
on July 18,2012 | 06:50AM
dufus wrote:
You need to take your Med's loloblue...!
on July 18,2012 | 06:37AM
beachbum11 wrote:
get a real life.
on July 18,2012 | 06:41AM
OB1NONO_ME wrote:
Too much PRP in your morning cup of coffee?
on July 18,2012 | 07:50AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
OK UKU. 1) Bus is an alternative to those who cannot drive or do not wish to drive in traffic. Plus, the bus system covers the whole island, not just one part of the island. And, it's a lot cheaper. 2) The proposed rail is 20 miles with 21 stops. 3) Rail could possibly carry a higher volume. Question is, will people ride it? City guesstimates, they don't know for sure. 4) Even the city has admitted that rail will NOT solve traffic congestion. And, they want to add 15,000 homes on the west side. 5) Job creation is an excuse when you consider the jobs created by billion dollar sewer upgrades, water system upgrades, road repair, and public school infrastructure.. 6) Even with fed funding, Oahu taxpayers will be saddled with the bulk of the cost and maintenance. 7) Steel on steel rail is far from being green. There are better technologies. So, UKU, as you can see, your reasoning is full of holes. Think your excuses thru and stop trying to fool the people like Mufi, Peter, Yoshioka, and Garcia did. Actually, you could be one of them.
on July 18,2012 | 08:25AM
DPK wrote:
ukblue: Decisions, decisions. A shiny new rail to nowhere serving 1-2% of the island's population? Or good roads, proper sewage treatment, an abundant clean water supply, and control over flooding problems. HMMMMMM.
on July 18,2012 | 08:49AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
Due to the proposed limited route the rail system will traverse, most likely commuters that resides on the far distance stations of the rail route (i.e, Ewa Beach Kaneohe, etc...) will not be the ridership citiizen of this rail system; Will they give up their cars? Will there be free parking space for the cars provided for the riders who want to ride the rest of the journey to town? Nothing was said on the proposed trail system. By the way, where is the backup plan when things does not look green? Taxpayers will dish out the burden of maintaining the rail system when it does not look green.
on July 18,2012 | 09:17AM
frontman wrote:
pass the pipe as you have had one too many tokes.
on July 18,2012 | 09:20AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Uks ain't your contract up already? Gotta keep working thru the election huh? Gotcha.
on July 18,2012 | 09:34AM
thevisitor967 wrote:
@ukuleleblue: Finally, an intelligent post on this board.
on July 18,2012 | 11:46AM
Grimbold wrote:
Rail ruins the city's finances and average people will still use their cars. because rail is an uncomfortable thing were you are crowded with rubbish people - the kind you want to avoid.
on July 18,2012 | 04:38PM
CouncilmanBerg wrote:
Go to 4 minute mark in this youtube- answer covered in one minute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWR8y13Xus
on July 18,2012 | 08:10AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
08:10 am? Aren't you on county Company time Berg? I'm paying your wages Sir! So Sir! Get back to work. No blogging on taxpayers time. Unethical!!
on July 18,2012 | 04:33PM
atilter wrote:
attack? "nanakuli boss"? isn't "nanakuli boss" an o-x-y-m-o-r-o-n?
on July 18,2012 | 07:20PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:36PM
jkjones wrote:
FOLKS! remember THE PRO RAILERS SLOGAN, "IT'S CHEAPER TO BUILD IT NOW, THAN TEAR IT DOWN LATER". STOP THIS MADNESS. VOTE BEN!
on July 18,2012 | 09:03AM
frontman wrote:
Cayetano cannot stop rail if elected, rivals charge.............Just watch him, VOTE for BEN and STOP RAIL NOW
on July 18,2012 | 09:15AM
allie wrote:
agreed. ben is in
on July 18,2012 | 12:35PM
ukuleleblue wrote:
The rail benefits the local middle class the most. Average people will ride the rail and will get jobs from the rail construction. Sure some people who have all the expertise in developing the rail will earn lucrative pay. This happens in any industry whether it be civil engineering, high technology, health care or any other. So don’t let sour grapes end up depriving us of something we need. That is called shooting yourself in the foot. Let the smart people make some money while helping us so we can benefit from the rail giving us a better transportation alternative. If we don’t like to see others getting rich, why are we buying iPhones and iPads and using Facebook? We middle class locals should see that we are the ones who will need the rail for the benefit of our children and grandchildren. The time to build the rail is now and killing it would be the most foolish thing.
on July 18,2012 | 01:45AM
MalamaKaAina wrote:
ukuleleblue comments are laughable!
on July 18,2012 | 01:49AM
beachbum11 wrote:
Another joker.
on July 18,2012 | 06:51AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
So now the truth comes out--it's mostly for the middle class. Thought this was expected to be used by anyone/everyone. Nope, not buying your arguments.
on July 18,2012 | 04:52AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
Most of the population is in the middle class. Actually, the biggest beneficiaries will be the economically disadvantaged or those too young, too old or physically unable to drive a car. The will have an affordable way to travel up and down the H-1 corridor where 80% of the jobs and services on the island are located. According to APTA, using public transit instead of owning a car saves more than $11,000 a year. That's a lot of money.
on July 18,2012 | 06:34AM
DPK wrote:
BB: wonder how much low cost housing could be built within the city with $7 billion?
on July 18,2012 | 08:58AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Wrong. We do not need to spend a gargantuan and tsunami amount of $13.29 billion for "public transit" in Rail because we already have "public transit" in TheBus and TheHandi-Van.
on July 18,2012 | 11:38AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
The only people who should be opposing rail are the ones who absolutely will not use it and do not have descendants who can use it. Also, only those who are financially set with at least $2 million in net worth excluding their principal residence and do not need help from a prospering economy stimulated by building the rail. These people do not see any personal benefit from rail and apparently do not wish to support it in taxes. If you are not in this wealth class, do not get fooled by the anti-rail opposition into thinking that the rail will hurt you financially. Don’t worry that a few people with all the expertise may earn lucrative pay. This happens in every industry, whether it be civil engineering, high technology, health care or any other. We should focus on our need, rather than sour grapes on the other guy making some money while helping us. Average local middle class people will benefit from rail in many ways. Rail will give us an alternative to getting stuck in congested traffic. The people that will build and use the rail are our own families, relatives, friends and neighbors. The added development from rail will provide jobs so our children and grandchildren won’t have to move away. Rail is the greenest mode of transportation which will help preserve our environment and our natural resources. Building the rail will improve our quality of life in the best place to live in the world.
on July 18,2012 | 06:49AM
islandsun wrote:
Poorly designed, poorly financed, poorly managed, and totally corrupt! Rail has nothing to do with jobs or traffic.
on July 18,2012 | 07:02AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Where do you get off thinking people against rail are financially set at 2 million?
on July 18,2012 | 07:02AM
MKN wrote:
@ukuleleblue: Don't you mean that rail will improve the pocketbooks of the companies building the rail project in the best place to live in the world? LOL!!! Most people that have descendants will live where their parents live and if they live in Hawaii Kai, Windward Oahu, Mililani, the North Shore, they won't use rail because its too inconvenient to use. Rail is not green because the current project does not utilize green sources of energy to power the trains. HECO will build more oil burning generators and charge more money from all of us residents, so how is that green? If they wanted it to be green, why didn't they incorporate solar energy into their plans? I don't see any plans for solar panels at the rail stations. Remember that those are additional costs and would trigger a $15 Million change order for each station plus the cost to install and maintain the solar panels. This project is definitely on the wrong track and needs to be stopped!
on July 18,2012 | 12:04PM
wiliki wrote:
Of course everyone benefits. Less traffic congestion is great. But it also means that handivans for the less mobile don't get stuck in bad traffic.... Without rail everyone's commute is much much worse.
on July 18,2012 | 07:20AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Less than 2 percent less traffic congestion for a mere $7 billion and counting. What a deal.
on July 18,2012 | 09:43AM
Imagen wrote:
I can hardly wait!
on July 18,2012 | 10:46AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Eliminating traffic congestion itself makes rail irrelevant. We already have the Zipper and soon the PM contraflow to avoid "sitting in traffic'. Moreover, all we need to bring congestion relief on the H1 is to provide funding for ALL the elements of the Intelligent Transportation System to our Traffic Management Center. Only those so naive and uninformed as not to know how "Artificial Intelligence" which is the backbone of our Missile Defense System can and will make everyone in Oahu see how ITS really works. A train is not a train without wheels. Is anyone so naive and so uninformed as to say "rail won't work" if the trains brought in do not have wheels? Nor seats. Nor doors. Is anyone here so naive and uninformed not to know that without ALL the elements required for ITS to work, ITS will not work in the same manner that a rail system won't work with trains having no wheels, doors, nor seats?
on July 18,2012 | 11:46AM
MKN wrote:
@wiliki: They're building 17,000 homes in Ho'opili and Koa Ridge in the next few years. Any gains made by a rail system will be negated by the additional traffic that these homes would generate, so what's the sense in spending $5.3 Billion to build it in the first place if we're not going to stop building homes out there? The answer is it makes no sense! This rail project and those two housing projects need to be stopped. Overdevelopment is going to kill Oahu and two out of the three candidates promise to do nothing to stop it. Vote Ben for Mayor and stop this madness!!!
on July 18,2012 | 12:08PM
DPK wrote:
MKN: You are right! The one thing we can be sure of is that the purpose of rail is to support the huge subdivisions planned. Why else would it start in an open field? The money behind the push for rail is from developers who could care less about the island and its people.
on July 18,2012 | 09:31PM
inlanikai wrote:
Obama? Obama? ....... Which election is this about?
on July 18,2012 | 05:05AM
soshaljustic wrote:
Uke, middle and poor will pay the most for this metal toy the rich will lay claim to as they drive their porsche and benz around the island laughing all the way to other people's banks. More in the middle will become homeless with the loss of the tax base because you would have them pay through the nose, simply because of your choo choo- when they wish to shoo your choo choo and keep their hard-earned dollars in their pockets instead. You talk of the middle class and yet deprive "us" yet denigrate the middle class as not being smart? The others are? Is that including your twist?
on July 18,2012 | 05:10AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
The middle and poor make up a good majority of the voting pubic, so if they can see through all of this, then Ben should win easily. The rich think that the middle and poor are stupid.
on July 18,2012 | 05:57AM
wiliki wrote:
Nope critics of rail think that the people of Honolulu are stupid for buying the lies that these critics dish out.
on July 18,2012 | 07:21AM
nalogirl wrote:
Nope its the promoters of rail that think the people of Honolulu are stupid enough to believe their lies. We have found out way too many falsehoods already, my vote is for Ben.
on July 18,2012 | 10:09AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Wrong. It is unfortunate that our DOTS already has what is called Intelligent Transportation System but without all the elements needed for ITS to work. A rail system where trains do not have seats nor doors nor wheels definitely won't work in the same manner that ITS in Oahu won't ever do its job of bringing traffic relief on the H1 and improve traffic flow in downtown traffic without all the elements ITS needs for it to work. I believe we have some elements of ITS in place like "CCTV" or Close Circuit TV and a "TMC" or Traffic Management Control and "RWIS" or Road /Weather Information System. We do not have other elements like VMS (variable message signs) which posts variable speed limits - an important ingredient in congestion relief, TDC or traffic data collectors also an important ingredient in congestion relief, Ramp Meters and other elements.
on July 18,2012 | 12:03PM
Kuniarr wrote:
And actually, you, wiliki, think that you are not lying whey you make the following lie and baloney as "basic facts" : "Rail is being financed with state .... monies so it wont help city fiscal problems.
on July 18,2012 | 01:22PM
kahuku01 wrote:
Uku: Your dementia sets in again! You're contradicting yourself again. You said, "Rail benefits everybody," and yet you clearly stated, "We middle class locals should see that we are the ones who will need the rail for the benefit of our children and grandchildren," Like MalamaKaAina said, "your comments are laughable!LOL. Please, it is time for your meds.
on July 18,2012 | 05:52AM
ueharator wrote:
Will people who have kids going to school in town ride the rail? It'll be a pain in the you-know-where catching the bus with your kids to the rail station, getting off, catching a bus to drop your kids off, and catching another bus to work. And what's the plan when they get sick and you have to pick them up? Or how about the person that frequently go to meetings? Are they going to catch a bus? The company i work for won't hire a person who doesn't have a vehicle since said person needs to meet customers frequently to generate sales for the company. What about workers who have to lug their tools with them to work? I don't live on the west side, but everyone i know on the west side do not plan on using the rail. Another thing, pro-railers keep talking about bus O&M as if we're going to use the same bus. It'll be easer and less expensive to replace a bus with a more energy efficient one in the future as opposed to replacing a rail car, if that'll even be possible.
on July 18,2012 | 07:16AM
Kuniarr wrote:
We do not reail because we already have ITS and only need funding to bring in all the rest of the elements of ITS for ITS to work. ITS (Intelligent Transportation System) won't work and accomplish providing traffic congestion relief on the H1 as well as improve traffic flow in downtown traffic without all the elements needed for ITS to work in the same manner as a bus or a rail system won't work when buses or trains do not have wheels, nor seats nor doors.
on July 18,2012 | 12:07PM
jkjones wrote:
bonged again! comon uku, quit blowing smoke.
on July 18,2012 | 09:27AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Uks open the bottle. Put the meds in the mouth. Swallow. Ok, all better now?
on July 18,2012 | 09:41AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
Many middle class citizens, for example, resides in Ewa Beach, which there will be NO rail station/route, and at Kapolei which has station (proximity distance to average home ???); most likely many of these young middle class families have children one way or another to be dropped off to day care centers or schoosl close to their areas. Will they give up their cars in return for riding the rail?
on July 18,2012 | 09:50AM
jkjones wrote:
Bonged, again, UKU.
on July 18,2012 | 10:46AM
MKN wrote:
@ukuleleblue: I thought it benefits the rich the most by providing them rail contracts worth billions of dollars on the backs of Hawaii's Taxpayers? Most middle class people I know don't ride the bus and they have no plans to ride rail when its built. If anything they might just use it for sightseeing and that's about it. If they really need to get somewhere, there's no way that they would use rail to get there. It would take twice as long in most cases since they would have to do the following: 1) Walk to the bus stop. 2) Catch the bus to the rail station. 3) Get onto the train at the rail station. 4) Get off at the rail station closest to their destination. 5) Walk to the bus station. 6) Catch the bus that goes nearest to their final destination. 7) Get off the bus that goes nearest to their final destination. 8) Walk to their final destination. This process depending on their destination will take 1-2 hours depending on where they are going compared to 30 to 60 minutes if you went to these same places by car. If they are going to or coming from the Windward side, North Shore, or Waianae, it will take even longer. There's no way that most people will ride rail unless they can't afford a car or to park near where they work. Even during the debate, no one could or would tell us exactly how much it would cost to ride rail. All they said is the bus and the rail would all be included into the same cost. That doesn't mean that the cost of bus passes won't go up, because I guarantee that the cost of the bus pass will go up. My guess is that it would go up at least 50%. After all, O&M costs are slated to increase from around $100 Million to $400 Million by 2030. Also, these costs don't include security that HPD or a private company would need to provide in order to keep the rail cars safe.
on July 18,2012 | 11:54AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
Eh UKU, I going type slow 'cause I know you cannot read fast. This has nothing to do with sour grapes. It has everything to do with being fiscally responsible and getting the most bang out of our hard earned buck and this rail project doesn't fit in any of those categories.
on July 18,2012 | 02:52PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
So true ukulele. You are spot on! Great post.
on July 18,2012 | 04:34PM
atilter wrote:
attack? "nanakuli boss"? isn't "nanakuli boss" an o-x-y-m-o-r-o-n? hmmmm?
on July 18,2012 | 07:23PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:37PM
CouncilmanBerg wrote:
Governor Ben Cayetano will have multiple methods available before him to reverse course on the rail project when he becomes our mayor- including this one possibility: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWR8y13Xus as well as working with the State Legislature to amend ACT 247 (HSL 2005) to redirect and expand use of the GET rail surcharge for better use. His veto power can also be sustained at the City Council level to override HART budgets. And there are many more technical means to intervene but more importantly- his victory will resonate island wide to the halls of DC that the con job this rail project has morphed into stops at his desk.
on July 18,2012 | 03:28AM
jayz43 wrote:
“We the people” have the power to END this rail nightmare contrived by Mufi Hannemann and backed by big business leaders in Hawaii. For those who oppose rail and those who want an END to the draconian service cuts to The Bus, on August 11th vote for Ben Cayetano for Mayor and END THIS INSANITY.
on July 18,2012 | 04:42AM
wiliki wrote:
The majority of people supported rail and will continue to do so. Councilman Berg will not be re-elected.
on July 18,2012 | 07:23AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
You mean the minority including the blank votes that were counted as Yes votes to make it look like a majority?
on July 18,2012 | 07:46AM
bluebowl wrote:
Vote 4 Tom Berg
on July 18,2012 | 08:46AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Isn't Berg ,chair of the Parks in city council? A question in last night debate was the bad conditions of the bathrooms. Berg, what are you doing about it? Why should Carlisle have to answer for this? I would fire you.
on July 18,2012 | 04:39PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - arhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:38PM
PCWarrior wrote:
Like Grabourmoneycuz just fired you NoliveNanakuli?
on July 18,2012 | 07:52PM
wondermn1 wrote:
i WILL BE VOTING FOR TOM BERG & BEN CAYETANO AND KIA'AINA
on July 18,2012 | 09:26PM
DPK wrote:
wiliki: August 12 will tell. GO BEN GO!
on July 18,2012 | 09:00AM
atilter wrote:
"DE-RAIL DE RAIL"!
on July 18,2012 | 04:55AM
kiragirl wrote:
PRP and ImuaRail must think Cayetano can stop rail. Yep, he needs people like you on the council to help him to stop rail. Go Berg Go. Thanks too for all what you've done.
on July 18,2012 | 05:42AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Go Berg Go, Go long, no further, go real long, keep going to Hawaii Kai. Okay,stop. Thanks.
on July 18,2012 | 04:50PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:39PM
wondermn1 wrote:
Go Tom Berg Go, thanks for your help and research. You have been and are the best Councilman on the City Council. You have been watching our backs and we will watch yours GO TOM GO-
on July 18,2012 | 06:01AM
nalogirl wrote:
I wish I could vote for Tom Berg, I don't live in his district, he is for the people.
on July 18,2012 | 10:11AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Nalogirl,most of the antis don't live in district 1. So they don't know about the traffic. The people of District 1 will vote Berg out, his a mess. Please except him to your district. After November, he will gone and then you can vote for him, 4 years from now.Not! YouTube Berg,secret service,drunk,halekoa hotel for laughs..
on July 18,2012 | 04:43PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:39PM
BluesBreaker wrote:
Dream on, Clown Prince of the Council. None of your scenarios will come to pass, but you won't be around to embarrass your constituents anyway, after Kym Pine knocks you out of office.
on July 18,2012 | 06:06AM
wiliki wrote:
I hope Delacruz takes it....
on July 18,2012 | 07:24AM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
I'm not sure he's even old enough to vote for himself.
on July 18,2012 | 09:04AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
Let the citizens speak via the power of votes.
on July 18,2012 | 10:47AM
nalogirl wrote:
My goodness BB, name calling!
on July 18,2012 | 02:14PM
hawaiinui wrote:
Go BERG Go! Thanks for some light in this dark pit the shameless insiders have gotten us into! Go Ben Go!
on July 18,2012 | 06:13AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
hawaiinui, nice haircut.
on July 18,2012 | 04:45PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:40PM
dufus wrote:
You got my vote CouncilmanBerg and Ben.... just watched that video!
on July 18,2012 | 06:51AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
What are you doing about the Landfill issue, Berg??
on July 18,2012 | 04:36PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:41PM
loquaciousone wrote:
CANNOT STOP RAIL? Somebody should tell PRP that so that they don't spend all the carpenters money on useless ads. Somebody should tell HART that so that they don't continue to waste taxpayer's money. No one believes that or millions in rail propaganda and PRP slime ads wouldn't be going down the toilet. HART, PRP and pro rail special interests groups are really ramping up the rail propaganda now because everyone knows who's in the lead and their names aren't Pete or Kirk.
on July 18,2012 | 03:42AM
islandsun wrote:
Actually, PRP should spend as much as they can. They will be broke & broken if Ben wins.
on July 18,2012 | 04:37AM
soshaljustic wrote:
meant sick wit-no ability to edit.
on July 18,2012 | 05:17AM
soshaljustic wrote:
Let PRP aka prop-agenda have a load of fun at trying to make things and opponent's points of view, laughable through sick white and smear.
on July 18,2012 | 05:16AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Did anyone else see how Pete and Kirk completely were trying to avoid talking about the new maintenance costs that were revealed on Monday? They still want us to believe that this rail is affordable? Also, they avoided talking about raising taxes...we are smart enough to know that property taxes and car registration is going to go up big time, right? Tired of also hearing Kirk tell us they have the money already...it is not her and I highly doubt that we'll get anywhere near it, but now it's like we are asking for 1.55 billion when the actual cost is more like 11 billion? Double that to 22 billion for all the change orders and cost overruns that will surely happen, and that's a conservative figure. This article also is talking about how the city had to cut back on fixing the roads to ease the debt...can't afford it, but willing to pay for rail.
on July 18,2012 | 04:59AM
inlanikai wrote:
Twice as long, twice as much.
on July 18,2012 | 05:07AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
You must have been watching a different debate! Peter and Kirk both did a good job of pointing out how much cheaper it is to operate the rail than the bus. Both noted the bus costs $0.83 per passenger mile to operate, while rail is only $0.40. They also noted that labor and fuel costs for the bus are higher and rising faster, which would mean that by 2025 the bus and handi-van will cost three times as much to operate than rail. They blew little Ben out of the water on operating cost. He didn't even try to respond.
on July 18,2012 | 05:57AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
The bus serves the entire island, so obviously cost per mile is going to be higher. The rail only serves 20 miles.
on July 18,2012 | 06:12AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
You don't understand the concept of cost per passenger mile. That's how much it cost to carry each passenger for each mile a given mode of transportation travels. It's per mile, not total miles. It's the standard measure for evaluating transit system operating costs and the metric used and approved by the FTA. Because there will be 116,000 trips per day on rail, which serves the 20-mile-long area containing more than 80% of the island's population. It's not supposed to serve the entire island. That's why it will be part of an integrated bus-rail system. Bus will serve the portion of the island not served by rail.
on July 18,2012 | 06:41AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
If rail can't serve the entire island and bus routes are being taken away, then how is this transportation plan good?
on July 18,2012 | 07:05AM
wiliki wrote:
Rail has a greater volume than buses. It can only carry such heavy loads unless it can provide fast and convenient service.
on July 18,2012 | 07:28AM
hybrid1 wrote:
With 64 seats, the two-car trains supposedly have room for 254 standing passengers. But that’s at “crush capacity,” which is far more crowded than Americans are willing to accept. Assuming the city increases the seating to 76 seats, actual loads are likely to be limited to a total of about 150 to 200 people per train............. At a maximum of 20 trains an hour in each direction, the line will be able to move about 3,000 to 4,000 people per hour inbound in the morning and a similar number outbound in the afternoon.............. By comparison, a single HIGHWAY LANE (e.g. zipper lane) can easily move 600 buses per hour, and at 40 seats per bus that represents 24,000 people (in 20,000 cars) per hour, none of them having to stand................... FACT: 20,000 cars per hour removed from the freeway will vacate 10 full freeway lanes.!..
on July 18,2012 | 09:41AM
PCWarrior wrote:
We don't understand huh Bluesy? Educate me. Tell me what is truth o great dear leader of the PRP Republic of Hawaii.
on July 18,2012 | 10:07AM
Kuniarr wrote:
BluesBreaker, let me remind you again and again and again that Rail O&M consists of (1) O&M of trains and (2) O&M of buses and handi-vans that bring riders between the 21 rail stations and bus transit centers.
on July 18,2012 | 01:31PM
Grimbold wrote:
Deceiptful comment. Only 10% will live within couple hundred feet of a rail staion. People further away will use their cars, not the rail.
on July 18,2012 | 04:47PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
I hope you don't teach math.
on July 18,2012 | 08:53AM
Imagen wrote:
I hope you do not teach ETHICS!
on July 18,2012 | 10:53AM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
Nothing unethical about posting comments...same thing you're doing.
on July 18,2012 | 04:43PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
My favorite part was when they asked about what the cost to ride would be and how much operation and maintance cost would be, and... I think it was Kirk answered "the fare box and 'other sources of revenue.' ??? They don't know how much, but they already have plans to get it.
on July 18,2012 | 07:23AM
DPK wrote:
BB: shouldn't the $7 billion to get the rail system be included in those cost comparisons?
on July 18,2012 | 09:02AM
nalogirl wrote:
you must have been watching a diffeent debate, Kirk and Peter didn't answer the question of how much will the fare be? Not a peep.
on July 18,2012 | 10:14AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney.Those are false data comparing apples to oranges. Rail means "trains plus buses and handi-vans to bring riders to and from each of the 21 rail stations to and from bus transit centers." The O&M of the bus fleet for the entire island can not be compared to the O&M of "trains and bus/handi-van fleet" serving the 20-mile stretch of rail.
on July 18,2012 | 01:29PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Baloney Stew. Today's Special.
on July 18,2012 | 04:45PM
atilter wrote:
nanakuli boss - a rhetorical paradox!
on July 18,2012 | 07:42PM
ukuleleblue wrote:
Rail will be the most efficient and effective to move high volumes of passengers through the route that it covers. Add our award winning buses to circulated all the neighborhoods and feed to the nearest rail station and we have a world class transportation system. Build the rail now fo a better Honolulu.
on July 18,2012 | 07:11AM
DPK wrote:
ukblue: any idea of what the actual personal fare will be? This never is mentioned in any of the discussions.
on July 18,2012 | 09:03AM
hybrid1 wrote:
The year 2030 West Oahu commuter DEMAND is 15,000 people per peak hour above the existing highway capacity according to the City's Alternative Analysis. .. The $7 Billion rail carries only 4,000 people per hour so this leaves a shortfall of 11,000 west Oahu commuters per hour which will still need transportation to downtown via H-1 freeway, Moanalua Hwy and Kam hwy.
on July 18,2012 | 09:48AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Leeward has a low density population whereby a high-capacity rail system is inefficient and inappropriate and whereby only a low-capacity mass transit system as TheBus is appropriate and efficient.
on July 18,2012 | 01:33PM
jusjoking wrote:
When asked last night about safety for riders our mayor mentioned a new rail security force riding the trains to ensure passenger's safety. So much for reduced personel costs for automated train operations that won't require drivers. He left out the source of funding and where it is budgeted in the current fiscal plans.
on July 18,2012 | 09:16AM
hybrid1 wrote:
He also left out the $22 million for HART which could pay for 440 full time bus drivers. the $22 million is paid by property taxes.
on July 18,2012 | 09:50AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Estimated maintenance costs went up $582 million. This is in addition to the $7 billion minimum you know rail will end up costing. But hey, what's another half billion among friends, huh?
on July 18,2012 | 09:59AM
LittleEarl_01 wrote:
"Carlisle and Caldwell again questioned Cayetano's ability to stop the project if elected." Wait, hold that thought. Maybe, just maybe both Carlisle and Caldwell could be right, however, the people sure have the power to STOP RAIL. Let's put it on the ballot in simple terms; Do you want rail, yes or no. Not steel-on-steel, not MagLev, not monorail on the ballot. In other words, KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID. Every day more and more is found out about the backroom dealings. Accusing Cayetano of "pay to play" by both candidates is laughable. What do you think rail is?
on July 18,2012 | 05:08AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
The question should be more like "Should we proceed with building rail?" The reason is some people want rail, but know that it is not affordable.
on July 18,2012 | 05:50AM
KeithHaugen wrote:
Yes, the PEOPLE have the power to stop this huge ongoing waste of hundreds of millions of dollars (billions, in fact). and they will do so by electing Ben Cayetano on August 11. He cares about the people...and about fixing our roads and sewers and more.
on July 18,2012 | 06:33AM
Changalang wrote:
Executive veto power extends to the sitting Mayor, whoever it is, to sign off on the bond borrowing. The Council would have to override any mayor's veto, but Ben is correct. Half of them are up for re-election in 14, and with the will of the people putting Ben in office for a real transportation solution; it is totally possible. Ben is a viable threat to the Rail Mafia. Carlsle is trying to minimize it; but the actions to squash Ben speak to the fear of Peter's "handlers".
on July 18,2012 | 05:27AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
The City Council can override the mayor's veto. Right now the council has voted 7-2 in favor of rail on critical bills. Next council will be even more pro-rail. Romy will be gone. Joey Manahan, who will replace him, is pro-rail. Tom Berg is a goner. Kym Pine will beat him badly and she is pro-rail. Only Ann Kobayashi will be left in the anit-rail camp.
on July 18,2012 | 06:01AM
soundofreason wrote:
Oh, THAT would be smart :/ IGNORE the mandate that their voters put before them by him getting elected. Yeah, that'll sell.
on July 18,2012 | 06:59AM
jkjones wrote:
dream on.
on July 18,2012 | 09:32AM
PCWarrior wrote:
I like dreaming, cause dreaming can make you mine.
on July 18,2012 | 10:12AM
Changalang wrote:
No Councilperson will take the bullet for you guys if the public votes down Rail and votes Ben into Honolulu Hale. What can you bribe the yes votes with that won't get them in jail when the investigations unfold? Many served with Tam and after Nestor the Molester, only fools and suicidal dead-enders will stand with the Rail Mob. (IF Ben wins.) Cayetano called it straight in the debate.
on July 18,2012 | 04:17PM
hawaiinui wrote:
Simply more light on this scheme that would have otherwise gone unnoticed if not for Berg, Kobayashi and Ben. Thanks, Changalang!
on July 18,2012 | 06:16AM
KeithHaugen wrote:
That may be a problem...since the incumbent council members, with one notable exception, have shown that they don't care at all about the people.
on July 18,2012 | 06:34AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Is Breene still hiding under the desk? He afraid of Berg.
on July 18,2012 | 07:56PM
Kaleo744 wrote:
The Majority of the people has already made their decision on rail, but the "the Guys" you know the "guys" who will never ever ride the steel horsey is saying other wise, of course come election time you know these guys are gonna be jumping ship or start heading out of dodge.
on July 18,2012 | 05:52AM
BluesBreaker wrote:
7 years and all pau. Will end with money left over.
on July 18,2012 | 05:58AM
KeithHaugen wrote:
We don't have the money, so what can be left over? A huge debt that our grandkids will have to pay if we don't elect Ben Cayetano on August 11.
on July 18,2012 | 06:35AM
hybrid1 wrote:
After rail, city will spend 17% of taxes on transportation The new rail financial plan recalculates the taxpayer subsides that will be required to operate the overall bus/rail/Handi-Van transit system, and concludes the city subsidy from fiscal year 2010 to 2030 will be $5.871 billion. This will add an additional $200 per month for property taxes.
on July 18,2012 | 09:54AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Rail is practically free. It's like spending monopoly money.
on July 18,2012 | 10:13AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Personally, I think the article's headline shows us that the SA is slanted in their views on rail, making people think it's a done deal. They could have had a more positive take on it in Cayetano's favor, like "Carlisle and Caldwell not convincing in debate"
on July 18,2012 | 06:04AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Actually you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait as the election comes closer. Remember how the SA tried to convince us all how great Mufi was? These guys - big business, of which the paper is a part of, and big labor - are going to pull out all the stops to discredit anyone looking to take the massive cash out of their hands. If they are spending close to a million to slant the election, just think of how much these folks stand to make off this project.
on July 18,2012 | 10:16AM
kahuku01 wrote:
Uku: It's quite sad to hear you specifically mention "we middle class locals" in your blog because I sense that you are a high maka maka individual. Don't forget, people should be treated with dignity and respect especially when no specific group of people are designated to use the city transit system. Yeah, and don't forget the tourist, military, upper and lower class people and all nationalities. They all make a diffierence in promoting a better economy.
on July 18,2012 | 06:27AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
Yes Uku sounds "high maka maka" and is disrespectful of those he THINKS should be using rail. All people regardless of income level should consider using the rail, but you know the more affluent like all those pushing for rail, our politicians and developers are not going to use it. They want the same people to get off the bus and take the rail. So we have two systems to pay for but at what cost to the middle class? Currently, the bus and zipper lane could be used more and what happened to the idea of carpooling? The majority of the drivers on the road are single passenger. Why complain about traffic that will never be resolved with a silly rail system that is basically a slow train? There are also a lot of those driving without licenses or uninsured....take them off the road and we'll have considerably less traffic. Ask the students if they plan to ride rail....you will be enlightened.
on July 18,2012 | 06:44AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
They want the same people to get off the bus and take the rail. So we have two systems to pay for but at what cost to the middle class? Response: Every driver who rides is one less car on the road whch will relieve the traffic for people who need to drive for a particular trip. The half percent general excise tax for rail ensures that everyone in all classes pays their fair share to accomplish this government service that benefits all.
on July 18,2012 | 07:02AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
I wasn't talking about drivers--we expect current bus riders to take rail. Do you actually think that a lot of people that are currently driving will take the bus? I'm saying we are asking the same people that take public transportation to now take rail and we will have to pay for two systems to serve basically the same people. If you think there's a lot of people that plan to actually take rail and give up their cars, you are dreaming.
on July 18,2012 | 07:18AM
bluebowl wrote:
Americans love their cars
on July 18,2012 | 08:54AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
The only people who should be opposing rail are the ones who absolutely will not use it and do not have descendants who can use it. Also, only those who are financially set with at least $2 million in net worth excluding their principal residence and do not need help from a prospering economy stimulated by building the rail. These people do not see any personal benefit from rail and apparently do not wish to support it in taxes. If you are not in this wealth class, do not get fooled by the anti-rail opposition into thinking that the rail will hurt you financially. Don’t worry that a few people with all the expertise may earn lucrative pay. This happens in every industry, whether it be civil engineering, high technology, health care or any other. We should focus on our need, rather than sour grapes on the other guy making some money while helping us. Average local middle class people will benefit from rail in many ways. Rail will give us an alternative to getting stuck in congested traffic. The people that will build and use the rail are our own families, relatives, friends and neighbors. The added development from rail will provide jobs so our children and grandchildren won’t have to move away. Rail is the greenest mode of transportation which will help preserve our environment and our natural resources. Building the rail will improve our quality of life in the best place to live in the world.
on July 18,2012 | 06:52AM
AKULEMAN wrote:
The jobs that will build the rail are not competitive jobs for ever one, unless you belong to unions (you pay dues you play with a job) and special interest groups most likely favors their own members. Good luck in finding a job in the rail project. This job is not for everyone, only for the selected few. It made me laugh watching an Ad with a typical union member construction guy promoting to move forward with the project. How about giving jobs to a regular citizens of Hawaii that need work for feed their families. Why are the jobs only for special group of Hawaii citizens???
on July 18,2012 | 10:24AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
Au contraire, rail will primarily benefit all except your "high maka maka individual."
on July 18,2012 | 06:55AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
ukuleleblue wrote: "Au contraire..."

Just an observation. I don't hear many people claiming to be "middle class locals" begin sentences with "Au contraire." I think you're that silly college student in New York who used to post here under a different name.
on July 18,2012 | 10:55AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Couple of key points:

Kirk and Peter say the reason for bad roads and sewer problems is the debt limit on the City. But Both enthusiastically endorsed raising that debt limit by hundreds of millions of dollars to make the rail project budget look better for the Federal Transportation Authority. When asked, both say that extra money will never be needed but both then say there is no plan for how it can be re-paid. It is part of the shell game called rail financing - a game that includes cutting bus service to limit transit expense, again to make rail look better.

Ben says that his election would be voter mandate. That is exactly true. As the only candidate to be anti-rail, his election will prove the will of the people. Both Petey and Kirk say Ben is a one issue guy - not true - but it is a testament that rail is the decision point. A vote for Ben is a vote against rail.


on July 18,2012 | 06:36AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Vote Ben and get rid of the 800 pound gorrilla.
on July 18,2012 | 06:51AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
An unwashed 800 pound gorilla.
on July 18,2012 | 03:04PM
markat wrote:
Good point. It irritates me to keep hearing how we don't have money to fix our failing infrastructure and to maintain what was one of the top bus systems in the nation, but we 'supposedly' have enough money to build and maintain a rail system that was sold to us through millions of dollars of PR(oppoganda). It seems like there's a water main break almost every day. It won't be surprising to start to see one every day, then two a day, then three a day. These breaks are not freak occurances. They are a symptom of large problem that we need to deal with now. And don't forget the EPA mandate on the sewer system that seems to have conveniently been pushed to the back seat during this election cycle.
on July 18,2012 | 07:46AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
...and all homeowners are having to foot the entire bill each month.
on July 18,2012 | 11:07AM
akuman808 wrote:
America is broke, social programs need funding, 2 unpaid wars are due, Congress took the social security surplus from the Clinton increase in ss rates and issued worthless government bonds so what they took has not replenished the coffers, loans to China have monthly interest more than what we can afford and the pro-rail faction thinks $1.5 billion will come from Congress??? Yet they are okay with $2 million in Public Relations spending to promote the rail project and leave the roads in dispair. Papule politics, hana hou style.
on July 18,2012 | 06:50AM
ukuleleblue wrote:
Right now we can obtain a huge $1.55 billion in assistance which can easily go to other states if we do not take advantage. With the federal assistance and the increased economic activity from this project, our local community by the multiplier effect will easily get back much more by stimulating our economy. We are currently in a positive environment for the federal government to help subsidize this important project. President Obama and the federal government are pushing infrastructure projects to help the national economy. We need the substantial increase in jobs that only the large rail project can provide right now. Otherwise we will continue the status quo stagnant economy with more of our average local people out of work. We need to have government provide services such as rail for the less privileged locals who already live here and can get squeezed out by rich foreigners. Rail will keep our economy prospering and provide a needed transportation infrastructure that will benefit future generations. Money spent on rail is not wasted money. The money goes to hard working local citizens who need jobs. Building the rail will improve our quality of life in the best place to live in the world. Rail helps the average local so don’t get fooled by people that say it will hurt us.
on July 18,2012 | 07:06AM
sleepingdog wrote:
ukuleleblue, your posts are so repetitive that there must be a more efficient way of communicating your thoughts. Since you support the rail project, which is supposed to be more efficient in transporting people, you should also adopt a more efficient way of conveying your ideas. For example, assign #1 to the first sentence in your previous post, and assign #2 to the second sentence, and so on. Then whenever you want to use these sentences, all you have to do is write, for example, "5, 9, 2, 6, 1." It would be much simpler for you, and readers would get just as much out of it.
on July 18,2012 | 08:52AM
SandBar wrote:
As with his posts, everyone is ignoring the PRP spots on TV and radio. They need to do something to justify the millions these PR firms are charging us.
on July 18,2012 | 09:57AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Only listen to uku. Got it.
on July 18,2012 | 10:40AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
ukuleleblue wrote: "Right now we can obtain a huge $1.55 billion in assistance which can easily go to other states if we do not take advantage."

If HART gets that "huge $1.55 billion," it won't go to other states... it will go straight to Italy instead.
on July 18,2012 | 10:58AM
soundofreason wrote:
""The fact that I am elected will be considered a mandate by the City Council that the people want this project stopped," Cayetano said.>>>>>WORD!
on July 18,2012 | 06:54AM
wiliki wrote:
Give Ben a break for not being aware of pay for play? Why? Shouldn't he have been aware of that and taken action to insure that it didn't happen? And why not apologize when he realized that it did happen in his administration?
on July 18,2012 | 06:54AM
markat wrote:
Pay to Play was not Ben's invention as PRP would make it appear. Pay to Play is synonymous with Hawaii politics and was around long before Ben arrived and is still around today. All politicians in Hawaii should be associated with Pay to Play, but PRP is trying to stick it all on Ben to deflect the attention from what is really happening with the rail Look at all the players in Rail and you'll see the true Pay to Play in action.
on July 18,2012 | 07:52AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
I demand an immediate investigation of Hirono for allegedly illegal acts involving pay to play campaign donations.
on July 18,2012 | 08:29AM
loquaciousone wrote:
How come you don't mention Nestor Garcia for collecting a $60,000 a year salary from the Kapolei Chamber of Commerce and $30,000 from Dura Construction while voting 52 times FOR RAIL? That is more egregious because this issue will cost taxpayers billion of dollars and destroy the future of our children who will have to shoulder the bill for decades to come.
on July 18,2012 | 09:00AM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
Does anyone really believe he didn't know? Dennis Mitsunaga back listed as Ben's current Financial Chairman on a recently mailed fundraising letter on Ben's letterhead...and he denies it. What does that tell you?
on July 18,2012 | 09:00AM
PCWarrior wrote:
You're right. I'm gonna vote for rail now. Not!
on July 18,2012 | 10:41AM
jkjones wrote:
there you go again, being irrelevant rollman.
on July 18,2012 | 10:48AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Keith_Rollman wrote: "Does anyone really believe he didn't know?"

Mufi Hannemann and Mazie Hirono had a bunch of those donations too. Do you believe they knew they were receiving illegal contributions to sway contractor selection?
on July 18,2012 | 11:01AM
hybrid1 wrote:
“Before Ben got into this mayor’s race, Peter did not care about the rail. He let Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation Interim Director Toru Hamayasu run the project. When Hamayasu authorized a $15 million change order, he never told the administration about it. We all learned about it when Kevin Dayton wrote the article about it in the Star Advertiser. And when the city managing director Doug Chin waved the 20 percent debt ceiling for rail, Carlisle never knew about it. So who is the enemy of misinformation?”...
on July 18,2012 | 09:57AM
Imagen wrote:
And just what do you think Pete and Kirk did; are doing? Again, let he who has no sin, cast the first stone...
on July 18,2012 | 11:03AM
Tanabe wrote:
You want to reduce traffic? Easy. Once rail is finished, add a $5/gallon tax on gas and tripple the registration fees while reducing cost of bus and rail. Even making it free for low income people. That will reduce traffic, remove cars from the road, and not harm the poor too much. Sorry folks, we can't have it all. You complain about traffic, but no one is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to reduce it.
on July 18,2012 | 06:57AM
kiragirl wrote:
Great idea. Tax us some more plus raise our property taxes. All to reduce traffic by your concept? Heck, traffic will be reduced because we won't have money to out so will stay at home. Great idea! Arrrgh!
on July 18,2012 | 07:11AM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
They want to build more roads, add more suburban sprawl and make it worse.
on July 18,2012 | 08:58AM
jkjones wrote:
wrong again! get a real job.
on July 18,2012 | 10:49AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Keith_Rollman wrote: "They want to build more roads, add more suburban sprawl and make it worse."

You're talking about HART and Ho'opili, right?
on July 18,2012 | 11:03AM
hybrid1 wrote:
With 64 seats, the two-car trains supposedly have room for 254 standing passengers. But that’s at “crush capacity,” which is far more crowded than Americans are willing to accept. Assuming the city increases the seating to 76 seats, actual loads are likely to be limited to a total of about 150 to 200 people per train. At a maximum of 20 trains an hour in each direction, the line will be able to move about 3,000 to 4,000 people per hour inbound in the morning and a similar number outbound in the afternoon.............. By comparison, a single HIGHWAY LANE (e.g. zipper lane) can easily move 600 buses per hour, and at 40 seats per bus that represents 24,000 people (in 20,000 cars) per hour, none of them having to stand.... FACT: 20,000 cars per hour removed from the freeway will vacate 10 full