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Honolulu passes Los Angeles as worst city for drivers

By Bloomberg News

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 03:14 p.m. HST, May 22, 2012


Honolulu, a vacation draw for its beaches and weather, was the most congested U.S. city in 2011, dethroning Los Angeles, an Inrix Inc. study found.

Drivers in the city, the state of Hawaii’s largest, wasted an average of 58 hours stuck in traffic last year, compared with 56 hours in Los Angeles, according the Inrix National Traffic Scorecard, released today. Honolulu jumped to No. 1, from No. 37 a year earlier, because of a change in the way Inrix counted congestion, said Jim Bak, co-author.

“We’ve shifted to focus on travel time for individual drivers, rather than overall congestion,” Bak said in a telephone interview. “L.A. has 15 times more people and 20 times the roadways of Honolulu, so at the system level, it obviously has much greater overall congestion.”

Congestion across the U.S. eased about 30 percent in 2011, the result of sluggish economic growth, according to the study. The decline was the steepest since 2008, when congestion fell 34 percent, according to Kirkland, Washington-based Inrix, a provider of traffic data-services to clients such as Ford Motor Co., MapQuest Inc. and Microsoft Corp.

Following Honolulu and Los Angeles in urban congestion were San Francisco; New York; Bridgeport, Connecticut; Washington; Seattle; Austin, Texas; Boston; and Chicago. Los Angeles and New York each had four of the 10 most-congested traffic corridors in the U.S., according to the study.







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bgrpph wrote:
Did Inouye help to change this index, just in time for rail?
on May 22,2012 | 07:54AM
OldDiver wrote:
Funny how the anti-rail crowd when faced with facts turn into conspiracy theorists.
on May 22,2012 | 08:59AM
what wrote:
I attribute our traffic problem to incompetence, not conspiracy. Our leaders have done next to nothing to upgrade our traffic infrastructure for 20 years now! Obviously, if you do nothing, traffic will get worse. And contrary to popular belief, we can upgrade our traffic infrastructure and improve traffic congestion. In 2005 a new highway was proposed from Aloha Stadium, over Ford Island, to Kapolei. It was approved by the Navy commander at the time, but stupidly shot down by Mufi Hannemann. Other ideas include a flyover for H1 or double decking Nimitz. These ideas are a fraction of the price of the ridiculously expensive rail. Unlike rail, highway infrastructure benefits all manner of emergency vehicles, freight vehicles, military vehicles, commerce vehicles, commuters, etc. etc. etc.
on May 22,2012 | 11:37AM
Jonas wrote:
The question I have about double decking is where the ends of the road will meet. Seems like this will cause tremendous bottlenecks. And some of the same complaints will be heard: only benefitting a certain area, cost (though not as expensive as rail) and the ruining of our wonderful city views (opposition by the Outdoor Circle.)
on May 22,2012 | 11:58AM
what wrote:
The double decker will have on ramps and off ramps. Not everybody is going to the same place. The cars driving into town have a place to park, the new highway will get them there and off the road faster and with fewer stops in between, lessening congestion. The more you eliminate stopping at intersections, the better. The idea is that you will make things much better, it will not be a magical solution to the problem.
on May 22,2012 | 12:07PM
OldDiver wrote:
Jonas, Ben Cayetano said that double decking was too costly and ineffective while he was governor. Double decking just increases the size of the funnel without increasing the size of the funnel opening. And as you pointed out that will just make traffic congestion worse.
on May 22,2012 | 02:07PM
what wrote:
It's not funnel, it will have on ramps and off ramps. Freight trucks, commerce or delivery vehicles, commuters, and others will exit into the Kalihi, Kapalama, and Iwilei areas. Why do you want to try so hard to believe that doing nothing is the best solution? Or that the limited purpose rail can move freight, emergency, and commerce? Get your blinders off.
on May 22,2012 | 02:19PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
That's the whole anti-rail argument...build more roads and highways, so we can add more cars and......have even worse traffic congestion.
on May 22,2012 | 04:16PM
what wrote:
That's the whole pro-rail argument, that people should not have cheap and convenient transportation that goes exactly where we want in comfort, we should all squeeze onto uncomfortable hard cattle cars that unnecessarily waste energy taking us not exactly where we really want to go.
on May 22,2012 | 04:55PM
Ioela wrote:
The only fact about rail is that it will bankrupt the state...add a couple lanes for buses only...and add buses...cut the cost exponentially. Funny how the "rail-crowd" just doesn't get it.
on May 22,2012 | 06:06PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Here is the thing. The guys in charge of transportation let this happen on their watch. They let the situation deteriorate way before rail was on the horizon. In other words, absolutely incompetent traffic planners. Now they want $5.3 billion for a magic bullet that.....wait for it.....does not mitigate the traffic.
on May 22,2012 | 11:33AM
Jonas wrote:
True, but no sense lamenting past decisions. We need a solution now. I don't think there is a magic bullet here, but we need to get more drivers off the road - whether it's using alternate forms of transportation or raising gas prices to pay for infrastructure upgrades or rail - we need to do something.
on May 22,2012 | 12:01PM
pakeheat wrote:
What you are saying is rail will be the solution when most experts say it's an alternative? Traffic will not get better even with rail, so is it worth spending 7 billion dollars?
on May 22,2012 | 12:13PM
Jonas wrote:
I'm not saying rail is the solution. I think we need rail as an alternative. Yes, an expensive alternative. The only way for traffic to get better is to reduce the number of cars on the road. So what can we do to accomplish that end? Can we tack on another dollar or two to each gallon of gas to raise funds for rail? Can we raise the vehicle weight taxes to subsidize a double deck for the H1? Maybe raise driver's license renewal fees an extra $50 to pay for Bus rapid transit lanes? How about doubling the registration fees for the 3rd (or more) car registered to the same address to help fund our ailing infrastructure? Maybe all at the same time will start having an effect on the number of cars on the road. There is no 1 answer, it will take multiple approaches to solve the problem. But in my mind, drivers are the ones who need to pay for the solution, as they are the ones causing the congestion. So hit 'em where it hurts - the pocketbook. By the way, I drive everyday, so I will also feel the pain from these suggestions.
on May 22,2012 | 03:09PM
pakeheat wrote:
What you are suggesting will hurt the poor and middle class, do you think the rich will be catching the rail, no way? They live mostly on the East Side so they won't be using the rail. Why would you spend 7 billion dollars and yet won't make a serious impact on congestion? You can't force people to ride rail, unless you hurt them with fees and then they might even drive without insurance and license of which we know are already happening, see the news where 170 plus citations were issued in 4 hrs on the Leeward side. Look at what the cost of rail has already done, increasing the .5% G.E.T. on everything we buy, and the bus operation will be changing due to high costs of gas. Do we have enough population base to support rail? My suggestions is to slow growth, improve on infrastructure, and find cheaper alternatives. The bus system is more flexible than the rail would be, and would you really think people who will drive their cars and parked it to catch the train?
on May 22,2012 | 04:32PM
OldDiver wrote:
Jonas, rail wil not be a solution to traffic congestion. There is no solution to traffic congestion. What rail does is give people an alternative to being stuck in traffic for hours everyday. Of course what this means is the anti-rail people like Ben Cayetano and Cliff Slater have no solution to traffic congestion, and in fact their so called solutions will just make traffic congestion worse.
on May 22,2012 | 02:10PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Baloney. There are solutions that can make major improvements in traffic but they require a concerted effort that involves lots of things.This has been covered many times. The thing is bang for the buck and $50,000 a foot just steals resources from other things that can be done. This whole meme of "nothing can be done" is a new propaganda by the rail folks who started out saying the train was a traffic mitigation project but then tried the jobs program, the economic incentive program, the transit oriented development program, the anti-suburban sprawl program, etc.
on May 22,2012 | 03:03PM
ammb3 wrote:
In 3 years, (if built), rail will go from Kapolei to Waipahu. BRT can be in FULLY in use probably in 2 years. Rail is FIXED. Bus is FLEXIBLE. RAIL is 7 billion. An EFFECTIVE BRT system will cost around $1.5billion.
on May 22,2012 | 10:31PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
Mitigate? No. Avoid, bypass, provide a reliable alternative? Yes
on May 22,2012 | 04:15PM
ammb3 wrote:
The Federal Transportation Administration and the City and County of Honolulu has ADMITTED that Rail will not reduce traffic!
on May 22,2012 | 10:32PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Bonified reason why rail would be a fitting alternative. One driver off the road becomes one rider on rail. Times this by a thousand times and Honolulu would lose it's crown of Most Congested Roadways. Hey Ben! Are you hearing this? What's your Plan.?
on May 22,2012 | 03:23PM
ammb3 wrote:
From ranking 37 to #1 in ONE year. That's very fishy!
on May 23,2012 | 12:12AM
2_centz wrote:
What does Jim Bak knows being on the mainland? and who on Oahu is helping him get this traffic information? I live right in town and have never been to Kapolei on the H-1 during pau hana time, what's the problem with this Jim Bak if he is on the mainland writing this article on Honolulu. Do something Peter Carlisle arrest this person.
on May 22,2012 | 07:54AM
OldDiver wrote:
I believe they have devices installed in cars around the U.S. to track their movement.
on May 22,2012 | 09:01AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Now who's the conspiracy theorist?
on May 22,2012 | 09:21AM
OldDiver wrote:
That company hires people to install tracking devices in their cars to track traffic movement. Why you believe that is a conspiracy is a mystery.
on May 22,2012 | 09:35AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Really? Awesome! Sounds like free, easy money. So, how do I get them to hire me? Or... do you have to be some plugged in insider to get to be one of the tracked cars? Between me and you, that sounds like a system ripe for abuse.
on May 22,2012 | 10:26AM
saveparadise wrote:
Sorry, no such thing in Hawaii. They definitely do not use tracking devices to study traffic habits.
on May 22,2012 | 01:45PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
You phone has it too, so you don't really need one in the car.
on May 22,2012 | 04:18PM
MANDA wrote:
This report will be so helpful for tourism. Good job, C&C and state officials, for focusing on more building/development and leaving aside the little issues like coordinating traffic and changing signals to walk-only instead of the current mess, moving jobs closer to homes, and encouraging more biking & walking.
on May 22,2012 | 07:56AM
Anonymous wrote:
Good thing we have Mufi's Train coming next year!! O_o
on May 22,2012 | 07:56AM
Graham wrote:
Think 30 yuears.
on May 22,2012 | 08:28AM
Mach2 wrote:
See knew rail was worth sin trillion.... Oops I mean billion.... Oops. I meant million What a joke our politicians spend our money like it is free for e taking.
on May 22,2012 | 07:58AM
Sat wrote:
And Cayetano wants to be Mayor just so that he can stop the rail....? He should get off of his mountain top home in East Honolulu and meet the people who live in the Leeward area... and perhaps give up the thought of his candidacy for mayor. Why has he not conducted community meetings in those areas most impacted by the traffic mess they must drive through each day? A government leader is one who is all about solving serious problems. So far, we've heard not a single word of a proposed solution from him for what is now the worst place to live and drive in...Honolulu.
on May 22,2012 | 08:02AM
cbie808 wrote:
If you take all the uninsured drivers off the road, you'll be amazed at the reduction in traffic. Cars are just for transporting people from one point to another. They're not status symbols people. If you take all the big suvs off the road and put these drivers in regular sedans, there'd be more room on the roadways. Save your money for retirement, don't throw it away at the pump.
on May 22,2012 | 08:10AM
popoki wrote:
Good luck doing that...aren't they not supposed to be on the road to begin with??
on May 22,2012 | 09:02AM
ammb3 wrote:
The City and County of Honolulu's Transporation Director, Wayne Yoshioka admited in 2009 that rail will NOT reduce traffic. The Federal Transity Authority also stated that rail will be worse with rail than without. We dont need an expensive system that will not properly manage traffic! Surveys said that thise who ride rail currently ride TheBus, the best bus system in the nation!
on May 22,2012 | 08:11AM
OldDiver wrote:
Please stop with the nonsense. Traffic congestion will get worse because there will be thousands of cars added to the mix in the next twenty to thirty years. There is no solution to that. Rail gives people an alternative to being stuck in traffic.
on May 22,2012 | 09:03AM
PCWarrior wrote:
Yes rail will. But for the billions upon billions to be spent, rail is clearly not worth the money. Not enough bang for the buck.
on May 22,2012 | 09:32AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
OldDiver wrote: "Rail gives people an alternative to being stuck in traffic."

Rail gives former bus commuters the opportunity to buy a car OR to ride a bus to a standing room only train to another bus twice a day. They WON'T have the opportunity to ride the express bus like the girl using her laptop in the "Imua" ads though, because you guys will take that "option" away and make her stand.
on May 22,2012 | 09:47AM
OldDiver wrote:
Sorry but you don't understand the concept of rail, commuting and economics.
on May 22,2012 | 10:50AM
pakeheat wrote:
You don't have common sense, sorry.
on May 22,2012 | 12:17PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
OldDiver wrote: "Sorry but you don't understand the concept of rail, commuting and economics."

So, what don't I understand? You guys are gutting the bus system, raiding their maintenance fund and cutting routes. If you want to travel from out west to town you will need to take a bus to a stand on a train to ride another a bus OR buy a car. Is there another option I'm missing?
on May 22,2012 | 12:54PM
OldDiver wrote:
Kaleheo1, that subject has been gone over what seems like a million times on this forum. Please examine the past forums to find your answers.
on May 22,2012 | 02:13PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Thing is, these are the same transportation guys who did nothing to mitigate traffic over the past decade. I'll say it again - we want traffic mitigation, not rail. Rail does not do what people want.
on May 22,2012 | 03:06PM
saveparadise wrote:
You have to drive or catch the bus to get to the rail station. Where does that traffic leave you and how long and how difficult will it be to park?
on May 22,2012 | 01:47PM
OldDiver wrote:
That again has been answered many times. Please refer to past forums to get you answer.
on May 22,2012 | 02:14PM
saveparadise wrote:
I have read no real answers. Just guesses as with the rest of the train fiascoe. No one even knows what the fare will be. All educated guesses that politicians are willing to gamble $5 billion or more on with tax payer money. That is a FACT.
on May 22,2012 | 02:43PM
ammb3 wrote:
When is it NONSENSE when he said it and admitted it??? You're living in a 'lala land' world. Wake up.
on May 22,2012 | 10:33PM
mcc wrote:
Rail will not help the traffic problem. The City has already stated this. Vote for Cayetano, end the rail, fix the infrastructure. By fixing the roads, replacing water mains so they don't break every week, will help alleviate the traffic problem.
on May 22,2012 | 09:00AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Rail will not help. Exactly.

The traffic did not appear overnight. It took decades to get this bad during which time the transportation planners - same guys - did absolutely nothing to help or solve the problems. Think about that. The smae guys who want $50,000/foot for rail did not do anything to help traffic.


on May 22,2012 | 11:36AM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
You keep saying it's the "same guys" but the city is providing an alternative to the State's crappy highway system. It's different "guys." The old department heads who screwed things up are all on Cayetano's "Truth Squad."
on May 22,2012 | 04:22PM
Jonas wrote:
It may help a little, but this is not a solution. Yes, the infrastructure needs to be fixed but the congestion and sheer number of cars on the road won't be reduced. And an accident will cause the same problems as a water main break - especially if it's a fatal one.
on May 22,2012 | 03:13PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Sat wrote: "So far, we've heard not a single word of a proposed solution from [former Governor Ben Cayetano] for what is now the worst place to live and drive in...Honolulu."

Hey... are you doing that thing where you try to "change the dialogue" away from how obscenely expensive the train that avoids Ewa, Kapolei, UH, and Waikiki but manages to go to D R Horton's newest urban sprawl and Saks 5th Avenue is?

"Hey look everybody! Ben Cayetano doesn't have any ideas besides doing the thing that P B America's said would be as good rail except a lot cheaper.

Seriously guys. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to go from defending this horrible rail plan to "challenging" Ben to come up with a better idea, but they should be fired. Currently, this rail rail plan follows a nonsensical route, sucks money out of our bus system, has practically no seats and stops constantly and is enthusiastically supported ONLY by developers and construction interests.

You want a better idea than THAT?! How about this? Fix the roads, synchronize the stop lights, develop UH out west like you clowns said you would, and move City administrative offices out west, and cut out all the subsidized parking for City and State employees in Honolulu so that the people who are making transit decisions might actually experience it.
on May 22,2012 | 09:40AM
MakaniKai wrote:
Kalaheo1; AWESOME post!
on May 22,2012 | 12:05PM
OldDiver wrote:
Seriously Kalaheo1.................The reason people are asking for Ben's plan is because he said he had one. You are playing the typical change the subject political game.
on May 22,2012 | 02:15PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
No. People want a traffic mitigation program and rail does not do that. Ben offers to give what we want. Why are the other guys trying to shove down our throats a program that is not what we want. We want an easier commute, not a train that costs every person on Oahu $5,500 to build and countless millions every year to operate.
on May 22,2012 | 03:08PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
Ben offers nothing...I sat through his whole presentation on the 17th. He's got NOTHING.
on May 22,2012 | 04:23PM
ammb3 wrote:
Clean your ears Rollman. It was there. Stop LYING as usual.
on May 22,2012 | 10:35PM
Jonas wrote:
They've been trying to sync the lights for years, and still can't seem to get it right. What also throws it off (at least in downtown) are the number of pedestrians who cross when the signal is already counting down. It makes turning cars wait and creates terrible backlogs. I wonder if pedestrian overpasses - especially in the downtown area - would help in this regard. And I'd love to see the city offices move out west, but I wonder how much traffic would help. I know traffic improves a lot when UH is on break, so I'd like to see if the West campus can be successfully implemented.
on May 22,2012 | 03:18PM
pakeheat wrote:
So why is it that they didn't implement those plans? GREED!
on May 22,2012 | 04:43PM
dlum003 wrote:
There are two things that local government should, but hasn't considered to solve this problem; 1) In the age of instantaneous data transfer, video conferencing, and high costs for office leasing, insurance, and utilities, WHY do we still INSIST on jamming all together in tiny offices in town? How about a mandated rotation of one week in/one week out of the office (work from home with a VPN connection)? The ony time we really need to be face to face is when business guests are in town. This leave home at 430am and get back at 630am everyday is so bloody archaic and the stuff of the 60's. Then we don't have to build that stupid rail, which will be long obsolete by the time its finished. 2) We live on islands with limited space and resources. The population needs to be RESTRICTED. We CANNOT continue allowing open migration and residency in Hawaii. We simply CANNOT. How we'd vet who can/cannot live here is unknown, but should be based on some kind of lineage/generational/tax history. This ain't Montana or Texas where we can just continue massive build outs in wide open spaces, and even there is open space available, why the HELL do need to build anything there? The only ones exicted about overcrowding in Hawaii are the scumbag developers and their crappola track homes.
on May 22,2012 | 08:18AM
saveparadise wrote:
Who else is with us on this? There is still time to save our paradise. We live on a beautiful TINY island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Please realize that land and natural resources cannot sustain more building projects and people than it can hold. We need more politicians in line with conservation and limiting growth that say to hell with developer monies for their campaign funds.
on May 22,2012 | 09:34AM
MakaniKai wrote:
Thank you saveparadise. Our GREEDY politicians at all levels local, state & federal have thought more of thier bank accounts than the conservation of these beautiful islands. Especially Oahu. Over development contributes to over population along with crumbling out of date infrastructure and you have a recipe for "choke" traffic. I have never, nor will ever vote for my city council rep Nestor Garcia. He should really move to Texas where D.R. Horten Schuler Division homes originated. Aloha.
on May 22,2012 | 12:19PM
saveparadise wrote:
Thank you MakaniKai. The rich and greedy flock here to spend their dollars where the politicians cater to them. The damage to our cost of living is astronomical for the little guys on hourly wage because supply and demand of everything rises wherever the money resides. Every new development makes the next square foot of land less affordable because soon there will be no more available land. The clock is ticking for anyone who does not already own land here. More homeless on the horizon as the rents go higher. Food? Water? We are totally dependent and it will become very apparent when emergency befalls us. I don't know who to vote for anymore. Most incumbents are of no value to the people and the aina. Aloha.
on May 22,2012 | 02:28PM
Wazdat wrote:
Yes that is what we need.
on May 22,2012 | 08:09PM
Jonas wrote:
I used to feel this way as well, but I don't see that happening at all. People can only be encouraged, not forced or restricted. Too much blowback.
on May 22,2012 | 12:07PM
who_dis_guy wrote:
Why doesn't HPD crack down on bad drivers? I see a ton of people not signaling, running red lights, or just stopping on the road waiting with no hazard lights on or anything. Then again, HPD does the same thing... There needs to be some changes made in our local government. Maybe we need more republicans or something. Anything besides the same old boys we have now.
on May 22,2012 | 08:18AM
OldDiver wrote:
Running red lights is not the reason for traffic congestion during rush hours.
on May 22,2012 | 09:04AM
who_dis_guy wrote:
True, it's probably old people like you causing the congestion.
on May 22,2012 | 02:31PM
RichardCory wrote:
Great idea. Let's have the police pull more people over on our high-traffic roads. That way we can have even more congestion when the cops are blocking lanes and creating distractions.
on May 22,2012 | 05:37PM
islandsun wrote:
And its going to get so much worse for westsiders when mainland developers and contractors build more crackerbox houses on all available land.
on May 22,2012 | 08:21AM
loquaciousone wrote:
The City and Mayor Carl liar is cutting bus services next month even though bus ridership is at its highest because of high gas prices. All because of the rail. How does this help alleviate traffic?
on May 22,2012 | 08:26AM
AmbienDaze wrote:
hey, wiliki, NanakuliBoss, OldDiver, JoJo14, PakeLady, aiea7, LongView, BluesBreaker, et al: here's your chance to bloviate.
on May 22,2012 | 08:34AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
What time do you pop your ambient?
on May 22,2012 | 03:31PM
Changalang wrote:
The whole plan is to make traffic worse everywhere. They are punishing Honolulu for thinking clearly. Unbelievable. The changed timing of traffic lights and are putting bike lanes on Waialae to back up morning traffic into Hawaii Kai to create a point. Wayne Y. has ordered a study on the bike lanes to commence only when UH and Chaminade is out to cover his bvtt. These dirty buggahs must be punished in August. They have no respect for the people. Go Ben Go !
on May 22,2012 | 09:36AM
soshaljustic wrote:
Yo and In no way- decided they would use psychology? Make them want Rail by giving them worse transportation problems? Make them scream to kill the bull, so to speak! GOREEE people just love mob scenes like this! Yoshibai and In no way are crafting this one!
on May 22,2012 | 02:37PM
Changalang wrote:
State Reps. are on record as to requesting the City change the traffic signal timing on Kal Hwy back because the City manages the signalling. DTS changed them for no good reason and State legislators spent weeks to get them to change it back because of the havoc. I don't like when politicians and their special interest lap dogs give WE THE PEOPLE the finger, because they can. Things need to change for the better. Kirk never pulled cr@p like that. He is a better second choice, in my humble opinion.
on May 22,2012 | 04:07PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I'm sure cutting bus service and maintance so they have more money to build a train to justify building a bunch more houses and apartment buildings out west will fix things right up.
on May 22,2012 | 08:40AM
gojfam wrote:
we're #1, we're #1.
on May 22,2012 | 08:47AM
Notawannabe wrote:
Too many people have moved to Hawaii, that's the problem.
on May 22,2012 | 08:56AM
pakeheat wrote:
Yes, and they want to buy affordable homes in the West Side and commute to town by car, LOL. That's the problem, the City Planners could have slowed it down 20 years ago, so the blame goes to them.
on May 22,2012 | 12:24PM
Gumbo wrote:
You mean the State and the City have planners? Could have fooled me! Isn't that an Oxymoron like City and State workers?
on May 23,2012 | 09:18AM
MakaniKai wrote:
True.
on May 22,2012 | 12:25PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
You can't stop people from moving here or having kids, sorry. Zero growth is economic death.
on May 22,2012 | 04:26PM
Changalang wrote:
Too bad Honolulu has not chosen to address reducing traffic and instead has decided to make traffic worse for the next decade building the Gravy Train to benefit the "connected".
on May 22,2012 | 09:30AM
OldDiver wrote:
Changalang, you know what you just said is nonsense.
on May 22,2012 | 10:51AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Rail - NO

Traffic relief - YES

People want traffic relief but rail doesn't do that. I's really quite simple. Imua Traffic Relief.


on May 22,2012 | 11:41AM
pakeheat wrote:
Seen the latest IMUARAIL commercial, even more confusing with the lady talking about H-Power?
on May 22,2012 | 12:25PM
Changalang wrote:
I am a proud independent thinking Democrat who clearly sees that corruption is rampant everywhere. The truth and the repetition of the truth will eventually make Hawaii a better place. The Rail is about moving money amongst special interest. It is not about moving people as the most efficient manner to decrease traffic. It will not go to UH or Waikiki as originally planned. Building a train for a decade along the worst traffic route in the U.S. in no way will make traffic better. That is quite simply the truth, and even Rail Nazis know it. Hawaii people are not stvpid and one can be a loyal Democrat without being a Rail fanboy. The best way to help all the people is develop the Second City so they won't have to travel for work. We need to build West Oahu into a University and turn Manoa into after-grad only. Smart self sustaining growth is the ultimate traffic solution; not what we have been doing. Hawaii won't have Uncle Dan to bring money back anymore in November. Time for us to stand up for our own future with no payback to special interests.
on May 22,2012 | 03:57PM
Keith_Rollman wrote:
You need to reread the history of Ben "moving money around" with the old BRT contractors.
on May 22,2012 | 04:27PM
Changalang wrote:
Unrevised history dictates that Ben gets credit for the zipper lane and Jeremy Harris gets demerits for any BRT plan as Ben wasn't worked in a City position yet and BRT is a City project. Bob Watada fixed his wagon, though. Remember when Jeremy Harris was on stage and proclaimed he can't beat Lingle to tell Dan Ef Yoo for the Watada "pressure". Then, Dan went to sloppy second Mazie as a pinch hitter and she gave us 8 years of fiscal malfeasance and constant legislative conflict? I have a pretty clear re-collection of history. Even D.C. special interest "favors" for Parsons Brinckerhoff/George Pierson or blocking for Halliburton against fellow Democrats. Who cares about history? I am concerned about the fiscal future of Honolulu and want the Hawaii Carpenter's Union to build the Second City for us. :)
on May 22,2012 | 06:56PM
Changalang wrote:
For clarification, I blame Mazie for giving Hawaii Lingle for 8 years secondary to her miserable failure in the debate against her. Between Mazie and Dan, it is like a PB sandwich oozing out the sides all over the floor. Follow the $.
on May 22,2012 | 07:00PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
No, Lingles rise was set up by CayetaNOs fall. Period.. End of story.
on May 22,2012 | 09:54PM
PCWarrior wrote:
Lived in LA area for nearly a decade. This study is a joke. I've been stuck in LA freeway traffic for up to three hours one way. That never happens in Hawaii without an accident or disaster.
on May 22,2012 | 09:34AM
LAX2HNL wrote:
PC Warrior is correct. LA traffic is worse, worse, worse. There is no comparison.
on May 22,2012 | 10:12AM
inverse wrote:
Agreed. That is why they have that little Inrix caveat in the article stating that OVERALL commute times in LA is much longer than OVERALL commute times for the majority of Oahu drivers. Basic physics is that time (hours) is equal to distance (miles) traveled divided by velocity (miles/hour). The majority of drivers on Oahu travel less than 20 miles one way (ie Kapolei to Honolulu) while any LA, Denver, Seattle, Atlanta, San Francisco, etc. commuter will easily surpass 20 miles ONE way and many travel over 40 miles one way since most workers work in the heart business section of the city put live in outlying suburbs that are many miles away. For the longer distances like in mainland cities, that is where the train is superior than any bus or car, however 20 miles or less, like on Oahu for most commuters, a fixed rail train is USELESS.
on May 22,2012 | 10:22AM
TheKagawas wrote:
Yay!!! What do we win?
on May 22,2012 | 09:38AM
ammb3 wrote:
a $7 billion BILL to pay for rail! Oh, and if you want it to go to UH, add ANOTHER $2.4 billion!!! Congratulations on "WINNING"! You sound like Charlie Sheen already!
on May 22,2012 | 10:39PM
inverse wrote:
from Inrix website: If you happen to drive any of the Top 10 Worst Corridors during rush hour you spend nearly three weeks per year stuck in traffic, and could ride a bicycle faster than you could drive your car to work
Inrix calculates how long it takes to traverse ONE segment of their commute and that would be town bound H1 near the Middle St merge or coming off the Viaduct and on to Nimitz. If you read the additional statement, the OVERALL commute times for LA drivers is LONGER tha the overall commute times for Honolulu drivers. Even after spending >7 BILLION for a train, Oahu commute times will NOT decrease as the school commuting crowd will continue to use personal vehicles or an Express bus, assuming city does not CANCEL these express buses to force school commuters to use a bus/train/bus commute. So if the KNOWN Oahu choke points are addressed, like the H1/H2 merge, E bound Middle St merge and the Punahou off/Vineyard-Ward-Piikoi On ramp diasaster with some flyover/flyunder and/or limited double decking of the freeway, Honolulu would be off Inrix's list forever. Cost to resolve these chokepoints and make EVERYONE's commute times faster, would be in the hundreds of millions, maybe even a billion but would not only solve's Oahu's traffic problems but also get Hawaii construction workers back to work and NOT the like the rail project that has ONLY hired a couple of hundred local workers.
on May 22,2012 | 09:56AM
inverse wrote:
PS: There is one SURE and FAIR way to keep Oahu's traffic manageable during the work week now and way into the future and it is based on the inherent carrying capacity of where people can park their cars when they go to work or school. If a worker or student cannot find legal parking at their place of work/school and if they park illegally, if their vehicle gets towed away costing them $200 each time to get back their vehicle they will have no choice but to find alternative transportation like an express Bus, carpool, etc. That is why it is critical to 1) enforce and strengthen laws on illegal parking that blocks roads, sidewalks, etc and 2) DO NOT build any additional City, State or Federal parking structures for employees like the City had done near the Police station on South King St.
on May 22,2012 | 10:09AM
Royabell wrote:
ever notice how the zip lane is empty? no one is going to use rail. I think cut the lanes down to three and then and only then will people car pool.
on May 22,2012 | 10:26AM
Compassionate_Cat wrote:
We have the most inefficient traffic planning putting the flow of traffic exiting the freeways right in the path of those entering the freeways. Yes, It is the opposite of all those on-ramps and off ramps on the mainland. When the off ramp (EXIT) is before the on ramp (ENTER) the traffic flows very smoothly since the open space from the vehicles exiting allow for the traffic entering the freeway to immediately enter and be at the speed of traffic. The lane on the left side (think side with wedding ring on it if married) is for fast flowing traffic. The lane on the right side (think pinky ring) is for slow traffic. Keep your life secrets but which way your going should not be one of those. Using that traffic signal thing that makes noise at a stop light really does save lives and make it possible for us to share the flow of traffic, not sit in the parking lot of confusion. So with a few dollars and some changes to our drivers and roadways we could use that rail money for something much more necessary, quiet enjoyment of our island paradise with ample parking for our cars!
on May 22,2012 | 11:01AM
WKAMA wrote:
Not surprised. Every week there's someone getting run over while in a cross walk or some driver crossing the center line causing a head on collision. Maybe too many drivers are on drugs, on their cell phone, drunk, or not paying attention. I moved to LA from Hawaii and I can tell you driving in Honolulu is scary compared to LA.
on May 22,2012 | 11:07AM
localguy wrote:
Failure to properly design our roads is part of the problem for backlogs, traffic delays. In California, two major highways, I5 & 805 north merge together, we are talking 8 lanes wide merge, Then over distance, the outside lanes gradually fade away to the final four lanes. Traffic flows smooth. Now look at how our babooze DoT engineers set up the H1 & 2 merge, two lanes, one fast, one slow coming together, causing a massive backup. So why did they fail to make a smooth merge? Same at the middle street merge. Both areas could have been better planned, they were not. Same for University street on and off ramps. Same for Waikele shopping center off ramp. We still uses 1950s timers for our intersection control lights. We are so far behind Los Angeles in traffic management we will never catch up. Truly most of our traffic problem is self inflicted, we just do not have the competent people to fix our problems. Sad but true.
on May 22,2012 | 11:32AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
We want traffic relief. We are willing to pay for it. We are willing to do what must be done to get traffic relief.

Rail is NOT traffic relief. It may be transit oriented development. It may mean some jobs. It may be an "option" for a tiny % of commuters. But it is not traffic relief which is what we want.

A Politician who can explain this simple point will win by a landslide.

We don't want rail. We want traffic relief.


on May 22,2012 | 11:39AM
Jonas wrote:
Yes, and the question remains - how do we get it? There's no magic bullet. The plan will require many steps and parts, and I think any plan will face great opposition because some of these will not be liked by the general public.
on May 22,2012 | 12:16PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
That's the key Jonas - lots of parts. I like bike lanes and think we should have the best in the nation to match our weather but bike lanes are sacrificed to pay for Frankentrain, Better bus service is good but rail is a money zombie, gobbling up bus funding. Why has no one done anything about the Middle Street merge in decades? Why no direct routes from freeway exit to Waikiki or Ala Moana? Incentives for small cars. Prosecution for on-insured drivers. Move offices and services to the second city. Stagger gov't work hours. Change UH rush time. More flexible bus sizes. Etc., etc., OK, you have heard all this before.There are many. many traffic mitigation things we can do without the train.
on May 22,2012 | 03:14PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Back to square 1 ,maneki. No rail, no solution. Buses cause more traffic,and fatalities. Every week someone is robbed at a bus stop. Double stack freeway? Too much money and time and more delays. Imua Rail.
on May 22,2012 | 03:37PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: First of all stop fearmongering! You know the bus stops aren't going away with rail being built so people are going to be robbed at bus stops irregardless if we build rail or not. Also, buses do not cause more fatalities. Deaths from bus accidents are rather low and we have a lot of buses on Oahu. From a comparison standpoint, there isn't a whole lot of difference. Finally, you could easily build a double stack freeway from Kapolei all the way into town for $5.3 Billion (it probably wouldn't cost that much quite honestly), and the delays would only be a year or two longer than building rail. If you ask me, I would rather endure delays for something that I will use than for something that I or many of my friends or families would never use. Many people don't use the bus now. What makes you think people will use the rail in the future? I'll bet you don't even use the bus now! Do you know why? Its because buses and rail aren't convenient or flexible like driving your own car is.
on May 22,2012 | 04:46PM
leiann wrote:
easy answer to all this...Over development and still going on,,,Rail will not help and new highways will not either...to late folks, you brought it on yourselves, by voting in the same group year after year...now live with it !!!!!
on May 22,2012 | 11:53AM
pakeheat wrote:
Yes so true Leiann, so true. GREED!
on May 22,2012 | 12:27PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
What is over development,leiann? Development for people that need homes? What is over? When you buy your home, then say let's "close" development! To hall with the younger generation?
on May 22,2012 | 03:40PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: Actually there will be a point someday that we will literally run out of space to develop. What do we do then? Our costs to provide necessary infrastructure. water. electricity and other services will more than triple by then. At that point, the poor won't be able to afford to live here. If we keep developing at the rate that we are, it won't be a choice of whether or not we say to hell with the younger generation. Stop being selfish and bowing down to your masters that pay you to blog about promoting construction like there's no limit. The point is there is a limit! If we ever get to that point, we're all screwed anyways. If some people leave because they feel that Oahu is too crowded, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I dunno about you, but I don't want Oahu becoming a field of scyscrapers. We have other islands that we can build on too ya know. Stop being so small minded.
on May 22,2012 | 04:26PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
We still have a lot of room on Oahu. After all this is the capital island. I would be small minded if I thought like you, which is to slow mind progress down. So what is the limit? 1.5 million?
on May 22,2012 | 09:48PM
entrkn wrote:
How low can you go...
on May 22,2012 | 12:11PM
pakeheat wrote:
Actually, we can go even higher, LOL.
on May 22,2012 | 01:15PM
vapors wrote:
Wait.....let me put on my surprise face..... - - O
on May 22,2012 | 12:17PM
Ronin006 wrote:
I think this traffic study was paid for by HART with input from Parsons Brinckerhoff.
on May 22,2012 | 12:38PM
Bruddah_Shane wrote:
Honolulu townies are cry babies. Hawaii folk have no idea what traffic is until they do battle with Southern Cal freeway system. Sorta makes the morning traffic commute from Mililani / Pearl City / Aiea area into the downtown office on Bishop Street look weak.
on May 22,2012 | 01:07PM
pakeheat wrote:
It's the people who did the survey that are the cry babies, who cares what they think, they don't live here, LOL. Maybe they should help pay 75% of the rail cost?
on May 22,2012 | 01:18PM
bowwow wrote:
And the City just spent 1.2 million for new parking meters. Money that should have been spent on road improvements instead. Where's the priorities?
on May 22,2012 | 01:07PM
saveparadise wrote:
Exactly my friend! Where are the PRIORITIES??
on May 22,2012 | 02:45PM
ammb3 wrote:
They are taking it away from the HPD & HFD budgets!
on May 22,2012 | 10:41PM
Wahiawamauka wrote:
From 37 to number 1 in one year. Now this is a survey that can be believed.
on May 22,2012 | 02:10PM
HawaiiMongoose wrote:
So much debate over such a simple issue. Traffic is caused by too many drivers and not enough road. There are only three realistic alternatives to prevent complete, debilitating gridlock. Option one: Limit the number of drivers, by using tolls or taxes to jack up the cost of driving and force more people to use buses or stay home. (Standard objection: We can't do that, it's unfair to the poor.) Option two: Increase the amount of road, by widening major arteries and double-decking. (Standard objection: We can't do that, it will divert scarce land from other uses and create eyesores.) Option three: Create a transportation alternative that doesn't use roads, by building a rail transit system. (Standard objection: We can't do that, it's too expensive.) The truth is that all three options are flawed but we have to pick our poison. Doing nothing is the truly irresponsible choice.
on May 22,2012 | 02:14PM
LAX2HNL wrote:
wait a minute, rail will divert scarce land from other uses and create eyesores. double-decking the freeway won't take any more land as the freeway is already there. as for eyesore, okay, but the freeway is an eyesore already. we're completing a completely new eyesore with the rail and it will go much closer to the shore in many places.
on May 22,2012 | 08:06PM
MKN wrote:
The only real solution to our traffic problems is to stop building homes on Oahu. Unfortunately with all of the people in power, that will probably never happen. Its also not a solution to spend $5.3 Billion on a system that will serve very few people that replaces the bus for transportation into town. Okay, so let's say that rail get built and it comes in at around $5.3 Billion and it has maximum ridership capacity (yes even with people standing up). That woulld encourage even more people to live in Ewa/Kapolei/Makakilo/Kunia and result in nixing any potential traffic mitigation by the rail system. How does that help our traffic problems? The answer is it doesn't help us decrease traffic at all. One solution that nobody mentions that could truly reduce traffic is for the city or state to give a significant tax credit for telecommuting and requiring that all back office city and state employees work from home. If we spent $1 Billion on that, you could get a lot of the people that go to office jobs that aren't in customer service off of the road. Even by conservative estimates, that would be about 15-20% of our population not having to drive to work anymore. If you needed them in the office a few times a week, you could stagger who and when they would need to go into the office.
on May 22,2012 | 03:19PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
City and state workers are in the service business. That means they deal with contacting people. They are micro managed. That means they need to be seen daily by their supervisors. That's the way it works.
on May 22,2012 | 03:48PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: You know that's not 100% true. There are many departments that aren't micromanaged or that need to be in the office to contact people by phone or that aren't customer service related. Do all of the HR people need to be in the office every single day? Do computer programmers need to go to the office every day to write software programs or to provide technical support? Absolutely not! You talk about the rail opponents being closed minded and that rail is the future. Well, telecommuting should ultimately be a part of the future as well. You know that rail alone is not the magic bullet to solve all of our traffic woes. Telecommuting can take a huge bite out of our traffic problems and would not cost $5.3 Billion to implement. If you're worried about state and city workers slacking off because they have to work at home, you can have the managers provide work assignment quotas that would need to be met every week by these workers. If they don't meet those goals, they could be let go. Its time to think outside of the box. Not try to depend on your one trick pony of rail which really isn't cost effective. Did you know that the Federal Government has personnel in Washington D.C. and other high population areas that telecommute 2-3 days of the week? If the Feds can do it, so can the state, city, and private sector workers that don't necessarily need to be in the office every day.
on May 22,2012 | 04:17PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
It would still be micro managed. Also you do not just let go a worker. Not in civil service.
on May 22,2012 | 09:52PM
Changalang wrote:
The high density condo plan in Kakaako is superior while preserving farmland in the West.
on May 22,2012 | 04:00PM
ammb3 wrote:
Add an efficient BRT circle city system and it will work! Preserve the farmlands!
on May 22,2012 | 10:42PM
JWMacey wrote:
What a load of nonsense. Must be rail propagandist. I like how Honolulu jumped to number one because they changed the way they count. This is obvious propaganda and our press is failing the people of Hawaii by going along with this theft of 9 billion dollars by criminal politicians for this useless rail. 
on May 22,2012 | 04:56PM
Waipahunokaoi wrote:
Just my humble option but I think the report is totally bogus. I've driven in LA and New York and no way in hell is our traffic worse then these places. Someone must be twisting the stats to suit their agenda. Hmmm, wonder who that could be? Peter?
on May 22,2012 | 06:18PM
Changalang wrote:
I wonder what Honolulu taxpayers paid for this study; indirectly of course?
on May 22,2012 | 07:04PM
3012708737 wrote:
Hours and hours in a car.
on May 22,2012 | 09:35PM
atilter wrote:
the reason is directly related to the fact we have a weather system and life-style that many people want. so they keep coming droves - both well-to-do and not-so-well-to-do. when we really think about it our traffic problem is a direct result of that phenomenon. everyone, no matter what their personal income level, needs to get from point a to point b, to earn a viable living, and to transport family members. the problem stems from the fact that there is no way to regulate the number of vehicles a given family can own, register, and drive. everyone knows we have only a finite land mass to build the system of roads to accommodate this influx. it is not the fault of the dot engineers/planners. the population growth has overtaken and surpassed the growth planned. and there is no way to stem that population influx - NO WAY! SO THERE IS NO USE IN CRYING! WE JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!!! and that's the way it is in paradise! many have found a solution - and that is to elect to not live in paradise! simple!!!
on May 22,2012 | 07:29PM
soundofreason wrote:
From 37 to 1........in ONE year.......and nobody's questioning this?
on May 22,2012 | 07:38PM
cagena wrote:
Add rail to minimize cars? OR nix rail - build more roads and add more cars on more roads....hmmm
on May 22,2012 | 07:52PM
atilter wrote:
all our present attempts to relieve this situation are in reality costly, inane, and futile until we remedy the basis for which this dilemma springs - the number of vehicles we have allowed on our roads. finding a viable solution will take an unprecedented paradigm shift. are we willing to make it without putting our future genrations in the poor house? solutions are not always expensive. simple solutions seldom are!
on May 22,2012 | 07:59PM
LAX2HNL wrote:
Comparing congestion in places like LA and other big cities to smaller cities like Honolulu and Bridgeport is like comparing apples to oranges. One thing that the Star-Advertiser conveniently fails to note is that the study said that Honolulu had one of the steepest drops in traffic congestion from last year. NOT!!! With that kind of conclusion, this study is basically worthless.
on May 22,2012 | 08:02PM
Wazdat wrote:
GREAT so why are we NOT doing anything to IMPROVE the roads and ONLY focus on a train from an empty field to a mall ??? Our elected leaders have LET US DOWN and should WAKE UP. Double decker nimitz, fix the middle street merge and DO SOMETHING.
on May 22,2012 | 08:03PM
SteveToo wrote:
Avoid the traffic. quit your job and go live on the beach somewhere.
on May 22,2012 | 08:30PM
jussayin wrote:
One idea is to put further developments in the central and leeward areas on hold. Continued development tells me that we have the infrastructure for it which we don't. Seems like we always go backwards. We develop then wonder why there's so much traffic.
on May 22,2012 | 08:46PM
Kaleo744 wrote:
Say what you want whether you are for Rail or against Rail...in the mean time the rich gets richer and by the time all of this controversy on the the rail issue ,built or not built, the cost by then would double if not triple to 15-17 billion, and one thing that will be consistent is that the "Rich will get Richer", and the middle class will become poverty class and the poverty class will be on life support system paid for yes by the poverty class that once was the middle class.
on May 22,2012 | 09:28PM
onlyaloha wrote:
Supply & Demand, do some research and find out that subsidized parking is one the big issues. Cheap parking has a hidden cost. Let the market correct itself.
on May 22,2012 | 10:34PM
stingray65 wrote:
The only way this can be resolved is that to control sales of cars..If the buyer cannot prove that he has a parking garage or structure will be deny to buy any motor vehicle, or mopeds. Street parking is State of Hawaii is Illegal.
on May 22,2012 | 11:13PM
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