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Obama says immediate action needed on fiscal cliff

By David Espo and Jim Kuhnhenn

Associated Press

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 08:36 a.m. HST, Dec 29, 2012


WASHINGTON » President Barack Obama says "the hour for immediate action is here" on a deal to avert the fiscal cliff.

The president said he remains "optimistic" that an agreement can be reached in Congress before a looming year-end deadline to avoid tax increases and spending cuts.

If Congress can't reach a deal, the president said Congress should allow a vote on a basic package that would preserve tax cuts for middle-class Americans while extending unemployment benefits for the long-term jobless and working toward a foundation for a broader deal.

The president said an hourlong meeting toiday with congressional leaders was "good and constructive."

Senate leaders say they hope to reach a compromise that could be presented to lawmakers by Sunday, little more than 24 hours before the deadline. of middle-class tax increases and spending cuts from taking effect at the turn of the new year.

"I am hopeful and optimistic" of reaching an agreement after months of gridlock, the Senate Republican Leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said after the meeting with President Barack Obama and top congressional leaders at the White House.

Majority Leader Harry Reid said, "I'm going to do everything I can" to prevent the tax increases and spending cuts that threaten to send the economy into recession. He cautioned, "Whatever we come up with is going to be imperfect.

Success was far from guaranteed in an atmosphere of political mistrust — even on a slimmed-down deal that postponed hard decisions about spending cuts into 2013 — in a Capitol where lawmakers grumbled about the likelihood of spending the new year holiday in the Capitol.

"The clock is ticking," Sen. Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, said in remarks on the Senate floor as Obama and congressional leaders were meeting several blocks away at the White House. "My message to them is simple. We can do this. We can get this done, and we must," added the Montana Democrat.

Congressional Democrats said Obama was ready with a revised offer to present.

But that drew a denial from a person familiar with the talks, who said the president would review his proposal from a week ago, when he urged lawmakers to preserve tax cuts for most while letting rates rise above incomes of $250,000 a year. At the same time, Obama said lawmakers should extend unemployment benefits for the long-term jobless. The person was unauthorized to discuss the private meeting publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The meeting lasted a little over an hour and neither the president nor the four lawmakers spoke with reporters before or immediately after the session.

The guest list included two Republicans, House Speaker John Boehner, and McConnell; as well as Democrats Reid and Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, her party's leader in the House.

The same group last met more than a month ago and emerged expressing optimism they could strike a deal that avoided the fiscal cliff. At that point, Boehner had already said he was willing to let tax revenues rise as part of an agreement, and the president and his Democratic allies said they were ready to accept spending cuts.

Since then, though, talks between Obama and Boehner faltered, the speaker struggled to control his rebellious rank and file, and Reid and McConnell sparred almost daily in speeches on the Senate floor. Through it all, Wall Street has paid close attention, and in the moments before the meeting, stocks were trading lower for the fifth day in a row.

The core issue is the same as it has been for more than a year, Obama's demand for tax rates to rise on upper incomes while remaining at current levels for most Americans. He made the proposal central to his successful campaign for re-election, when he said incomes above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples should rise to 39.6 percent from the current 35 percent.

Boehner refused for weeks to accept any rate increases, and simultaneously accused Obama of skimping on the spending cuts he would support as part of a balanced deal to reduce deficits, remove the threat of spending cuts and prevent the across-the-board tax cuts.

Last week, the Ohio Republican pivoted and presented a Plan B measure that would have let rates rise on million-dollar earners. That was well above Obama's latest offer, which called for a $400,000 threshold, but more than the speaker's rank and file were willing to accept.

Facing defeat, Boehner scrapped plans for a vote, leaving the economy on track for the cliff that political leaders in both parties had said they could avoid. In the aftermath, Democrats said they doubted any compromise was possible until Boehner has been elected to a second term as speaker when the new Congress convenes on Jan. 3.

Apart from income tax rates, congressional officials in both parties said a handful of other issues were the subject of private talks in the Capitol. These included the Alternative Minimum Tax, which would effectively raise taxes on millions of upper-middle-class families unless Congress acts; as well as taxes on capital gains, dividends and estates.

In addition, benefits for the long-term unemployed are due to expire in the next few days, and doctors face the prospect of a deep cut in the fees they receive for treating Medicare patients unless legislation is passed to prevent it.

Further compounding the year-end maneuvering, there are warnings that the price of milk could virtually double beginning next year.

Congressional officials said that under current law, the federal government is obligated to maintain prices so that fluid milk sells for about $20 per hundredweight. If the law lapses, the Department of Agriculture would be required to maintain a price closer to $36 of $38 per hundredweight, they said. It is unclear when price increases might be felt by consumers.

______

Associated Press writers Alan Fram and Andrew Taylor contributed to this report.







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808Cindy wrote:
All those people who voted for the TEA PARTY have their personal wishes come true! hurt the whole country!
on December 28,2012 | 05:41AM
serious wrote:
Contrary!! It is a President that has so divided this country between the haves and havenots--he got elected by that 47% on the federal dole and he thinks it's a mandate for his liberal ideas. We can't go on spending and spending. It has to stop--already the top wage earners pay 90% of the income tax. Tax breaks to the middle class--good campaign slogan--they don't pay taxes!!!!
on December 28,2012 | 05:50AM
false wrote:
Middle class don't pay taxes your you know what! We carry the top and bottom.
on December 28,2012 | 11:42AM
Denominator wrote:
your name applies to your comments?
on December 28,2012 | 04:41PM
loquaciousone wrote:
I blame the rudderless republican party for 99 percent of the blame and the tea party nuts for 99 percent of the 99 percent.
on December 28,2012 | 06:13AM
hawaiikone wrote:
It takes two to tango.
on December 28,2012 | 07:20AM
bumbye wrote:
Touché, loquaciousone!
on December 28,2012 | 07:46AM
Changalang wrote:
But, only one to trip up and trigger a long hard fall. Thanks GOP.
on December 28,2012 | 07:48AM
hawaiikone wrote:
There will be those like yourself that automatically point finger, yet the majority of observers realize that both partners in this dance have messed up.
on December 28,2012 | 09:13AM
Changalang wrote:
Only in your self deluded manufactured reality. Actual reality shows that America thinks that it is the GOP's fault for being owned and operated by the 1%. Read the posted latest polling and weep. Or, in your case, slip deeper into your own imaginary cocoon of self delusion. Time to refill the Kool Aide in your baby bottle. Better put in extra strength. LOL.
on December 28,2012 | 09:52AM
hawaiikone wrote:
Ah, been waiting for you to go over the "cliff". LOL.
on December 28,2012 | 10:22AM
Changalang wrote:
Great. Jump on in, the water is fine.
on December 28,2012 | 12:06PM
Pacej001 wrote:
You have a text book case of Axlerodosis. Truth is the GOP is the party of the middle class, the dems the patrons of poverty and the hollywood elite.
on December 28,2012 | 02:37PM
Changalang wrote:
You have text book fanata-fascism-osis. Democracy only works when the majority agrees with the fanatics. Sorry, this is still America. The Syrian military is looking for a few good men, though.
on December 28,2012 | 04:00PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Wondered when the "fascism" card would flop down. Care to go for the "race" card?
on December 28,2012 | 08:44PM
lee1957 wrote:
You should read the article again. The House could have passed a tax increase at the $1 million level with a small amount of Democrat support. Anyone who proclaims its the other guys fault is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
on December 28,2012 | 10:00AM
Changalang wrote:
The GOP House did not have the votes to pass Weaker B0ner's signature "Plan B" package on Thursday, equating to a no confidence vote by his OWN GOP representatives. Fact. Those who wish to deny reality, are the SOLE cause of the problem, not part of the solution.
on December 28,2012 | 12:13PM
false wrote:
True but the republican doesn't know the steps. LOL
on December 28,2012 | 11:43AM
Changalang wrote:
They only know how to dance when they are standing on top of a insider lobbyist's feet.
on December 28,2012 | 12:43PM
64hoo wrote:
no the dumbocrats don't know the steps lets make an example when obama got elected 4 years ago his first 2 years he had dumbocrat control in the house and senate and all they did was spend spend spend an icreased are deficet and thats why 2 years ago the people got upset with the dumbocrats and kicked them out of the house because they were ruining this country with to much spending it put in worse debt. so thats why the dumbocrats don't know the steps.
on December 28,2012 | 08:01PM
LanaUlulani wrote:


Actually it is OBAMA and the other politrickans who are part of the problem not part of the solution.

On the other hand, TEA Party members and Occupy protestors help keep GOVERNMENT and PEOPLE honest which is a great thing.

The TEA Party is unique though. They like HAWAIIANS do not want more money in the form of taxes to go to American government. This money should go directly to the keiki and mo'opuna instead so props to the TEA Party !!!


on December 28,2012 | 07:24AM
loio wrote:
right on
on December 28,2012 | 07:57AM
Kaimiloa wrote:
I agree that these groups are important to push the mainstream politicians. But... don't be fooled into thinking that the TEA party is looking to help the keiki and mo'opuna. Those with the most need aren't paying taxes. Most programs that help the more vulnerable people in our community get their funding from taxes from the "haves".
on December 28,2012 | 08:00AM
LanaUlulani wrote:


NO ONE should be paying taxes to any American government! Thus my point.

Taxes are stealing money from people to give it to American government. Stealing is wrong!



on December 28,2012 | 08:22AM
false wrote:
Are you going to pay for our government worker who have to pick up the trash and wash down the stench you leave on the sidewalk
on December 28,2012 | 11:50AM
Pacej001 wrote:
Do the numbers $16trillion and $60 trillion ring a bell? Those would be the totals for national debt and unfunded Federal government liability, respectively. At some point those chickens come home to roost and break our economy in a more devastating way than happened with the crash in 2008. Remember that one? Multiply by five.
on December 28,2012 | 02:48PM
false wrote:
Occupy protesters, really? The posting needed some comedy.
on December 28,2012 | 11:48AM
Changalang wrote:
It is actually the House GOP's fault. Hopefully, Cantor will mount a coup de tat against Speaker B0ner. The Republicans gerrymandered House districts this year. That is how they held the majority. The new representatives from those districts would not support Speaker B0ner on his "Plan B" vote that failed. He simply sent the Reps. home guaranteeing we go over the cliff. All Americans should now that secondary to this tactic by the House GOP, the AMT tax will be applied to 90 million taxpayers for their 2012 tax returns; NOT 2013. People making only $34K will pay this tax for the first time. Households of $200K/annum will pay up to $11,000.00 more than last year because of Speaker B0ner's miserable failure. Thanks GOP. They run one third of the gov't and refuse to do their job, and insist on hurting the Middle Class that they swear they are trying to protect. Deeds, not Words. Democrats will hold the Senate, and White House, with a takeover in the House based on this. Then, maybe we can get America's work done.
on December 28,2012 | 07:36AM
Pacej001 wrote:
What of "America's work" do you expect to be done with your new democrat majority? "Work" implies some form of constructive activity, but it's hard to see how that's going to be possible in your scenario. Why? Because the liberal/progressive's only bullet has been fired and once fired can't be recalled: free stuff for all. Free medical care. Free food. Freedom from the stress of freedom. Free, free, free. Oh, your palls will come up with more free-sounding stuff and ways to vilify those who stand in the way of more and more of it, but the main effort has already been made. --------------- And a grand progressive vision it is except for one thing. It's inconceivably unaffordable and self defeating, this welfare state our politicians have created: $60trillion in unfunded liabilities, over $85 trillion if all Federal programs are considered. The economic bean counters vary in their assumptions, but credible forecast of the taxes needed to support this entitlement and spending driven monster government would have to increase revenue by 80% to 100%. And this is just FEDERAL tax revenue. Many states, California and our own, are in equally dire fiscal condition. To say that this level of taxation would leave our economy looking like a smoking hole in the ground is not an exaggeration. -----------------So, all this nattering about political tactics and how the noble Obama is fighting for a tax increase on the wealthy (a trivial $80billion out of our $1.1 trillion annual deficit) is nothing but nihilistic politics at its worst. And when these little men and women win the House, what then? A national death wish realized? Probably.
on December 28,2012 | 08:21AM
Changalang wrote:
" There are now two polls showing that the GOP will get the blame if fiscal cliff negotiations between the freshly re-elected President Obama and House Republicans...The Washington Post/Pew Research poll in question shows Americans blaming Republicans more than Obama by a margin of 53% - 27%. Only 12% indicated that both parties should share equal fault. This echoes the results of an earlier CNN/ORC poll which showed taxpayers blaming Republicans over Obama 45%-34%. " (04DEC2012; The Examiner) This demonstrates the trend-line that the blame is drastically being perceived as GOP only. Notice the difference in Obama's victory, contrasted with the fiscal cliff polls. That means a great number of people who identify themselves with the GOP blame the Republicans as well. First paycheck with GOP tax increases coming soon. Stick a fork in yourself, you and your Party are done. LOL. Last chance for B0ner to get on his knees and beg forgiveness. He is at the WhiteHouse now. :)
on December 28,2012 | 08:31AM
Pacej001 wrote:
"GOP only"? Totally wrong by your own numbers. And I note you didn't address any of my factual arguments above. Why? Because you have nothing but Axlerodian rhetoric, mile wide, inch deep, having nothing to do with the existential fiscal problems we face. What you do have is the progressive political tactics of the day which may continue to win for the democrats until our great big debt chicken comes home, Rev. Wright-like, to roost. And that's where you are, good with the polls, but bad by any other rational measure.
on December 28,2012 | 02:55PM
Changalang wrote:
GOPers who refuse to respect the rule of majority; refuse to respect the fiber of our Constitutional Republic. Delusional fanatism has always been a bad recipe in working democracies. Thanks for the shining example.
on December 28,2012 | 04:06PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Federal Republic: look it up. Also, look up some other stuff in the constitution regarding the various branches of government, such as the House and Senate electoral process. Every single member of the House is up for election every two years. This is as close as our system comes to a popular vote, and, despite of being radical, racists, tea partying fascists, the Republicans still won. Wonder of wonders. What could this mean? The country is still fairly evenly divided. Obama has no mandate.
on December 28,2012 | 08:49PM
64hoo wrote:
stop listening to the liberal ptess and t.v. such as cnn,msnbc,abc,cbs and other liberal bias stations there all demo liberals with mental disorders so stop listening to there liberal bias there making a robot out of you by controlling your mind. but i guess sheepo will still follow the bias news.
on December 28,2012 | 10:59AM
Changalang wrote:
I just read the Congressional record, Mr. FOXNEWS-bot.
on December 28,2012 | 12:13PM
64hoo wrote:
good you read the congtressional record the tea party and the house want to cut spending where obama and the dumbocrats want to spend money which makes sense to you, cut spending or spend.
on December 28,2012 | 03:52PM
Changalang wrote:
The tea party voted no confidence to the Republican House majority leader when he failed to get their support on his "Plan B" legislation that failed last Thursday on a floor vote. They re-districted the House to insure a Majority hold, and those district Republican reps refuse to back the GOP Speaker. That is the Congressional record. If you can't read that for yourself. Find someone who can read it to you enough times that you can process it. May I suggest a public school special education teacher. They have an ocean of patience when dealing with the learning challenged.
on December 28,2012 | 04:25PM
64hoo wrote:
simple question mr. democrat yes or no cut spending or not.
on December 28,2012 | 04:54PM
Changalang wrote:
I believe the already scheduled $480B and an additional $600B from Sequestration defense spending will mean that the military will indeed be just defense and not offense. So, yes indeed. :)
on December 28,2012 | 05:21PM
Changalang wrote:
It is actually the House GOP's fault. Hopefully, Cantor will mount a coup de tat against Speaker B0ner. The Republicans gerrymandered House districts this year. That is how they held the majority. The new representatives from those districts would not support Speaker B0ner on his "Plan B" vote that failed. He simply sent the Reps. home guaranteeing we go over the cliff. All Americans should now that secondary to this tactic by the House GOP, the AMT tax will be applied to 90 million taxpayers for their 2012 tax returns; NOT 2013. People making only $34K will pay this tax for the first time. Households of $200K/annum will pay up to $11,000.00 more than last year because of Speaker B0ner's miserable failure. Thanks GOP. They run one third of the gov't and refuse to do their job, and insist on hurting the Middle Class that they swear they are trying to protect. Deeds, not Words. Democrats will hold the Senate, and White House, with a takeover in the House in 2014 based on this. Then, maybe we can get America's work done.
on December 28,2012 | 07:39AM
loio wrote:
the Republicans have bent over backwards to remain open to higher taxes for the "wealthy" ($200K? $400K), and things like increases in the capital gains tax rate, even though other than libtards understand that such will decrease, not increase, growth. the Democrats, prominently amongst them Obama, want all their increased spending and taxation ... and STILL have pretty much nothing to say about any SPENDING CUTS. they want to talk about that next year. or the year after. or maybe the year after that. it's great political strategy, especially as regards the low information voters and the takers, but it's economic and reality ... folly. but the MSM, and folks like you, continue to partisanly (and economically illiterally) blame the bad old Republicans. wake up, get out of your own skewed, low-info echo chamber. my suggestion for your New Year's resolution.
on December 28,2012 | 07:55AM
Changalang wrote:
Actually, the Congressional record shows that the GOP House Speaker's resistance to just giving the Middle Class an extended and already existing tax break, in lieu of pushing his own "Plan B" to protect his wealthy donors on the floor of his own House only to get rejected by his own new GOP Representatives. The fact is rather than stay in D.C. to work a deal. He went home for Xmas. The Senate is in session. The House is still M.I.A. and won't even be present and accounted for until maybe Sunday. The Congressional record will show that two days is not enough time to accept a workable solution. Speaker B0ner's obstinate stance on considering workable plans acceptable in the SEnate and Oval Office will take America over the cliff. Speaker B0ner is punishing all of working class America for not agreeing with him because he is owned and operated by special interest corporate insider lobbyist who control the House through the Speaker. America deserves better. And more importantly, America knows better as the polling on this issue demonstrate. I hope Obama breaks the Speaker's back at this final meeting and does not play Mr. nice guy for a change.
on December 28,2012 | 09:47AM
lee1957 wrote:
Pot calling the kettle black, me thinks.
on December 28,2012 | 09:58AM
Changalang wrote:
Self delusion and pathetic attempt on spin; methinks.
on December 28,2012 | 12:11PM
DocG wrote:
Dunce caps all around !!! Dems & GOP ..... if any of them lived in the real ( as in yours and mine ) world this would have been done a long time ago .. however life in " Washington World " is more then just a bit different ... the only thing that would hurt them about $ 8 dollar a gallon milk is it might cost votes ... not their pocket books .. hence it will be written into any make shift deal that happens along. How very, very sad this is passing as "leadership" in America in 2013...
on December 28,2012 | 07:13AM
pastormatt wrote:
Sadly, I would look forward to the fiscal cliff, but more so for the debt ceiling to shut down our government. It won't happen because the politicians only care about their own self-interests, but we need a day of accounting and reckoning to take place to finally begin to correct our flawed spend-happy ways. DON"T RAISE THE DEBT CEILING! Let all of us suffer through the decisions of the spend happy politicians, then change might actually happen as people no longer ignorantly vote by party but actually elect those to make difficult decisions and not pander. We can't just allow politicians to spend spend spend and buy their way into office longer. We can't just keep giving away that which so many work so hard to achieve. There needs to be a reckoning, and I hope that this is the start. I am willing to pay a few more thousand in taxes a year if it means that our government begins the process of reducing itself.
on December 28,2012 | 07:13AM
Dragonman wrote:
Good post. Sadly though one needs a lot of money to run for office so when one finally gets elected one owes too many favors to people/corporations ect that supported them, so much so that they can not govern effectively. Until we change the way monies are given to the politicians don't expect to see any change in the way congress operates/votes on laws. It is a crying shame but reform is the only way things will change.
on December 28,2012 | 07:50AM
pastormatt wrote:
One easy solution - term limits! That way no candidate would rely on the monies of special interests and stop the insanity. No politician is so great to stay in office for life.
on December 28,2012 | 09:11PM
HD36 wrote:
Don't worry pastormatt: That which can't go on forever, won't. Market forces are the most powerful wind of change. Although the Fed can artificially manipulate interest rates on US Treasury Bonds, especially now that they are buying $40 billion dollars a month in long term, 10yr and 30yr outright, because they ran out of short term treasuries to continue operation twist, and are buying $40 billion dollars a month in Mortgage Backed Securities to prop up the bank's balance sheets and housing market, The Fed has no exit strategy. If they sell all these Treasuires they will flood the market, interest rates will rise, and the government wouldn't even be able to pay the interest on the debt, which they are now borrowing, to pay. If they continue to monetize the debt, the value of the dollar will eventually be worthless. Countries that export to the US and buy treasuries to keep their currency low, are experiencing higher inflation as a result and are starting to divest. In fact the Fed is buying 90% on the long term bonds. I think we're going to experience the greatest economic collapse in global history.
on December 28,2012 | 08:27AM
LanaUlulani wrote:


Actually Obama is part of the PROBLEM.


on December 28,2012 | 07:23AM
Dragonman wrote:
Give it a rest, all politicians are part of the problem.
on December 28,2012 | 07:51AM
Ronin006 wrote:
No, he is the problem.
on December 28,2012 | 08:12AM
Changalang wrote:
No, he is the victor. "Elections have consequences." ( way back when; "W" )
on December 28,2012 | 08:36AM
Ronin006 wrote:
He won because the 47% who pay no taxes and live comfortably on the government dole want to continue their blood sucker like live style.
on December 28,2012 | 02:47PM
Pacej001 wrote:
And a fellow with a funny mustache and teutonic accent was also the victor, for a while. See how that one turned out.
on December 28,2012 | 02:57PM
Changalang wrote:
Today's threat to peaceful discourse comes from fanatical minorities that delude themselves that their version of right is all that matters. I suggest you shave your funny mustache and accept your rightful place in our society. Step into the toilet, and flush. LOL.
on December 28,2012 | 04:10PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Four years, no national budget. No XL pipeline. Active suppression of domestic energy sources. Tax increases during economic stagnation. Manifestly divisive class warfare. No visible action on entitlement disaster (other than adding another one, knowing that all entitlements have cost orders of magnitude greater than estimated.) And the nastiest, most destructive campaign in years. And who's standing in the toidie? LOL There must be an olfactory disorder in your camp.
on December 28,2012 | 08:54PM
Changalang wrote:
It is solely the House GOP's fault. Hopefully, Cantor will mount a coup de tat against Speaker B0ner. The Republicans gerrymandered House districts this year. That is how they held the majority. The new representatives from those districts would not support Speaker B0ner on his "Plan B" vote that failed. He simply sent the Reps. home guaranteeing we go over the cliff. All Americans should now that secondary to this tactic by the House GOP, the AMT tax will be applied to 90 million taxpayers for their 2012 tax returns; NOT 2013. People making only $34K will pay this tax for the first time. Households of $200K/annum will pay up to $11,000.00 more than last year because of Speaker B0ner's miserable failure. Thanks GOP. They run one third of the gov't and refuse to do their job, and insist on hurting the Middle Class that they swear they are trying to protect. Deeds, not Words. Democrats will hold the Senate, and White House, with a takeover in the House in 2014 based on this. Then, maybe gov't can get the American Peoples' work done.
on December 28,2012 | 07:42AM
Changalang wrote:
Holy triple play, batman. That was a hard last dance past the "filters". See you guys at the bottom of the cliff. :)
on December 28,2012 | 07:47AM
Highinthesierras wrote:
Remember, the cliff was Barry's plan, he designed it, got it through Congress and told Congress he would not back down. So, if we go over the cliff, and we should, it was Barry's plan all along. The tax increases and spending cuts will help the our economy in the long run. We must think about our kids and their kids. Barry? He wants more money to spread around so worst case is tax increases with no spending cuts.
on December 28,2012 | 07:57AM
Changalang wrote:
False. The truth will set the country free. One Party Hawaii will serve as the model for One Party America. Congrats ! ROFL.
on December 28,2012 | 08:03AM
ShibaiDakine wrote:
"....They (Republicans) run one third of the gov't ...". --> that leaves a 2/3 majority that anaged to run up a 16.3 trillion tab and thinks the rich can pay it down with a tax increase on them. Yeah Changie, it is all Bushe' fault. Let 'er rip! Like the Fram oil filter commercial said "you can pay me now or pay me later.
on December 28,2012 | 08:04AM
Changalang wrote:
Perception is reality. I think it is you and people who think like you's fault. We The People will punish you in the coming election cycles so you can't hurt America anymore with your small minded stubborn myopathy. See you in 2014; under the boot.
on December 28,2012 | 08:33AM
hawaiikone wrote:
Reality is reality. Counting your chickens before they've hatched only leads to disappointment. Cluck, cluck.
on December 28,2012 | 09:19AM
Changalang wrote:
The belief that outcomes are arrived at vs. produced is what turns chickens into tasty sandwiches, says the fox smiling in the chicken coop.
on December 28,2012 | 09:35AM
Pacej001 wrote:
Or---- All Obama's fault because he has decided that, rather than compromise with Republicans who've publicly agreed to raise taxes, he's willing to whip saw the economy for his party's political gain. If it polls well it must be the right thing for our glorious leader to do,right? And what are his glorious gains, justifying his preemie Nobel? $80billion a year in tax increases (his campaign promise) which would reduce this year's deficit from $1.1 to $1.02 trillion. Wow! What a profile in courage: whipsaw an entire economy vs. such a gigantic reduction of our deficit. Where do we find such men as one who would fight so hard, risk so much (on our behalf) for so little in return. Look out Mt. Rushmore. No, wrong. We need to find an entirely new mountain to adequately capture the stature of a statesman so brave as to risk it all (guess that would be our all) for such a powerful, symbolic attack on our $16trilion national debt (going to $20trillion before he finishes his "work"). --------- And who knows what's next from our brave captain? My guess is something like the Charge of the Progressive Light Brigade to shave off something in the neighborhood of rounding error off of the oncoming entitlement debt tsunami. May have to find a second mountain to fully recognize the true magnitude of the Noble Obama's accomplishment.
on December 28,2012 | 08:35AM
Changalang wrote:
Polling would disagree making your opinion the minority one, or maybe even an extremist one. As the world banks race to print more currency to compete to de-valuing their own respective currencies; he who prints the world's only fiat currency wins. Good luck trying to eat all that hoarded gold. :)
on December 28,2012 | 09:38AM
Pacej001 wrote:
Funny. Step away from the whims of polling and your argument consists of a couple of slices of wonder bread, no meat. Elections have consequences, but so does simple math and our fiscal math will not be denied. We're in deep financial trouble and our dear leader only seems to know how to make it worse,..... oh, never mind, he's doing well in the polls. That's what counts.
on December 28,2012 | 03:01PM
Changalang wrote:
That's funny. Your argument starts as a pretext by erasing the expressed free will and thought of the majority as recorded by polling. It is not your America anymore. If you cannot accept that, then mental health professionals can offer you help until it is safe for you to assimilate with society.
on December 28,2012 | 04:13PM
Denominator wrote:
One man winning one election does not decide all the issues of government in America today for all the people. What kind of silly, vacuous, hair-brained logic are you using? "It is not your America anymore." I don't think I noticed all the Democrats moving away when Bush was in office? I don't think I recall all the Democrats in Hawaii pledging their allegience to Lingle? Someone may need a mental health professional alright!
on December 28,2012 | 04:56PM
Changalang wrote:
Yes, and luckily there is room for two in the asylum for you and your friend. At some point, the tyranny of obstructionism becomes treason. The Senate package will be offered to the Speaker for a floor vote. If he lets it occur, democracy in America still works. If he refuses and takes us over the cliff, then democracy will start working as soon as America gets their first paycheck with the cliff taxes taken out. He will be recalled by his own district. I respect the process and adapt to be part of the solution. I suggest, you and your crazy friends do what you can to still love what America has become.
on December 28,2012 | 05:26PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Post below to be read while Deutschland Uber Alles plays in the background. Maybe throw in some Wagner.
on December 28,2012 | 09:01PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Free will, a few hundred years ago, supported slavery and demanded that we believe the earth was the center of the universe. Bet there was a strong majority for both. Still waiting for something other than smarmy political tactics. Blast me out of the water with facts. Can't wait.
on December 28,2012 | 08:57PM
64hoo wrote:
forget the polls there one sided they only ask dems like you the questions thats why the poles are so one sided never believed them.
on December 28,2012 | 05:50PM
Changalang wrote:
That is what you have to believe to cope with the reality that you are mentally unequipped to deal with the world the way it really is, vs. the way you insist it has to be. Kind of sad to watch, but it appears watching is indicated in your specific case. Welcome to the list. :)
on December 28,2012 | 06:20PM
Highinthesierras wrote:
Barry leads on Hawaii time - a little too late, like four years late.
on December 28,2012 | 07:52AM
primowarrior wrote:
There are rumors that the extreme right wingnuts in the House are planning to oust Boehner and support Paul Ryan as the new Speaker. GOP obstructionism could reach a new high.
on December 28,2012 | 07:55AM
Denominator wrote:
The Constitution is often a fly in the ointment of those that want to remake America in their image.
on December 28,2012 | 04:59PM
false wrote:
This comment has been deleted.
on December 28,2012 | 08:09AM
serious wrote:
Yes, tax the rich, the government knows how to spend their money better than them. That's why they are rich and the government is how far in debt???? The Food Stamp president--blame HIM!!!
on December 28,2012 | 08:49AM
Ronin006 wrote:
Obama and his surrogates spoke endlessly about a “balanced approach” to the nation’s fiscal crisis, which suggested tax increases AND spending cuts, but that apparently is not what he really wants. He is pushing strongly for tax increases but flat refuses to discuss or consider spending cuts. He says he will consider spending cuts after he gets his tax increases, but history has shown us the cuts never will come. Republicans must refuse to agree to any tax increases unless actual spending cuts are included in the agreement and not just promises thereof.
on December 28,2012 | 08:10AM
entrkn wrote:
Democrats won and republicans lost... republicans must capitulate.
on December 28,2012 | 10:26AM
serious wrote:
In all due respect--the people on the Federal dole won. A madate to continue welfare and not work. Jobs!!!! That's a four letter word!!
on December 28,2012 | 10:34AM
Changalang wrote:
If the GOP Speaker puts the President's proposal achieved today up for a House vote; it will pass by bipartisan vote. It is a small package, but would prevent all the downside of a cliff. If we avoid the cliff, then it will be because of House Democrat votes when they are finally assembled on Sunday/Monday. Sad, that President Obama has to do the job of House Speaker in abstentia of leadership in the GOP. " Obama described his plan as holding down tax rates on midde-class Americans -- which he describes as family income up to $250,000 -- while allowing rates to increase on top income brackets. It also would extend unemployment benefits and "lay the groundwork" for economic growth and deficit reduction. " Senate Minority and Senate Majority say that they can have this package ready for a House vote by the time they return from their vacations. Everyone is going around Speaker B0ner.
on December 28,2012 | 12:38PM
Pacej001 wrote:
Sad, and puzzling, that Obama, as you say, has to do the speakers job when he really hasn't yet begun to do his own. Instead he's occasionally passed through the presidency long enough to stop in front of a teleprompter, but not long enough to actually lead. No, he looks like he's still warming up in the bull pen for the job and while he was doing so, the first appropriations bill of his administration had nearly 10,000 earmarks (the thing he promised to stop), then the health care frankenstein bill, assembled by democrat lobbyist, passed in all its 2,700 page glory without a single presidential finger print on it. Meanwhile, our fearless leader presided over three budget cycles with no national budget from Congress due to senate democrat political calculation. What a leader. Where do we find such men?
on December 28,2012 | 03:31PM
Changalang wrote:
Elections have consequences; so be a good American and offer an alternative for the nation to vote on. Oh yeah, we did that already. America said yes Mr. President. Fanaticism is no way to go through your angry life. America has been transformationally changed, as promised. The sooner T-baggin whack jobs accept the simple rule of honoring the whim of majority rule, the sooner sanity can reign supreme in Washington.
on December 28,2012 | 04:20PM
Pacej001 wrote:
House remained solidly Republican. Senate and House must compromise, period. That's the way our republic is designed to operate. When the neocommies on the left finally get this through their noggins, a solution will be found.
on December 28,2012 | 09:03PM
AhiPoke wrote:
My way or the highway is not LEADERSHIP !!!!! Why all the focus on "taxing the rich"? Even top level democrats agree that higher taxes will not solve the country's fiscal problems. The only way out is stimulating the economy and taking corrective actions on non-sustainable entitlement programs (medicare, social security, etc.). I agree that the tea party has taken a ridiculous stand but I also expect our president should have the skills (leadership) to lead us through this situation.
on December 28,2012 | 10:34AM
64hoo wrote:
the tea party has not taken a ridiculous stand they want to cut spending where obama and the dumbocrats want to spend spend spend spend to put us more in debt. so the tea party wants to cut spending which seems to make sense. stop watching listening to cnn,msnbc,abc,cbs and all the other liberal media and radio stations. there liberals with mental disorders tea party wants to cut spending. to help bring down the debt.
on December 28,2012 | 03:47PM
64hoo wrote:
its very simple all the president and dems have to do is put tax raises on the rich like they want plus fix medicare and the repubs just want spending cuts so if you put it all together and pass it its easy. but obama wants the tax raises so he can spend the money and that will put us in further debt. if they agree with spending cut that will get rid of the pork spending like inouye and the rest of the congress do. so tax raise the rich fix medicare and cut spending thats all there is to it. and when thata done then start working on social security and are countries defense.
on December 28,2012 | 11:17AM
Wardog wrote:
Bra u make no sense! Try writing in sentences instead of rambling on and on....
on December 28,2012 | 07:04PM
64hoo wrote:
i make plenty sense just cut spending thats not hard but the dems won't do that they rather spend spend spend spend us into more deficet.
on December 28,2012 | 07:32PM
false wrote:
All that talk about the middle class from both sides was pure BS.
on December 28,2012 | 11:39AM
livinginhawaii wrote:
Wasn't immediate action needed four years ago? I fail to understand why congress and the current administration are waiting until the last minute...
on December 28,2012 | 03:16PM
hauula1 wrote:
Do we have leader or a campaigner?
on December 28,2012 | 05:54PM
hikine wrote:
... and wait 'til Obamacare starts, the middle class will be taxed heavily to support the system. Obama hasn't mentioned decreasing his spending, he wants trillions of dollars more to spend like the last four years! Did you know there were more new millionaires while Obama was in office?
on December 28,2012 | 07:18PM
HD36 wrote:
Why can't we see the negotiations live on TV so we can really see what we voted for?
on December 28,2012 | 08:09PM
64hoo wrote:
you won't see it live because the tea party republicans in the house will make the dumbocrats look stupid.
on December 28,2012 | 11:45PM
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