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Expert says victim shot while struggling on floor with Deedy

By Ken Kobayashi

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 01:14 a.m. HST, Aug 12, 2013


A defense expert testified this morning that Kollin Elderts’ fatal wound indicated he was shot as he and State Department special agent Christopher Deedy were struggling with each other on the floor of a McDonald’s restaurant in Waikiki.

Jonathan Arden, a forensic pathologist from Virginia, testified that the chest wound and the position of the gun when the two were on the floor were “consistent” with the fatal shot being fired at that time.

Arden’s testimony supports the defense version that Deedy’s third and final shot killed Elderts who was on top of the agent and punching him.

Deedy, 29, who was here for the Asia-Pacific Economic Conference, is on trial on a charge of murdering Elderts the early morning of Nov. 5, 2011 at the McDonald’s Kuhio Avenue restaurant.

Deedy is claiming he shot the 23-year-old Kailua man in self defense.

Police found two bullet holes in the restaurant walls. The third bullet was recovered from Elderts’ body.

During the prosecution’s case, retired police Detective Theodore Coons testified the second shot killed Elderts before he and Deedy ended up on the floor.

But Arden said the wound and positioning of the gun was inconsistent with the fatal shot being fired at that time.

Jessica West, Deedy’s friend, is expected to retake the witness stand later today for cross-examination by the prosecution.

Because of scheduling issues, Arden was allowed to testify out of turn in the defense case.







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Kalaheo1 wrote:
We've already heard expert testimony that Deedy STARTED shooting at Elderts at a time when Elderts wasn't touching him, much less wrestling for control of his Deedy's gun. I don't think it matters which of Deedy's three shots actually hit and killed him.
on August 1,2013 | 01:54PM
allie wrote:
Tend to agree. This, to me, is manslaughter.
on August 1,2013 | 01:57PM
keola2011 wrote:
Its unfortunate that Deedy wasn't taught how to defend himself like a man.
on August 1,2013 | 04:49PM
stingray65 wrote:
Too Bad!! Deedy was not trained to become with a SEAL TEAM!! He allowed himself with in two arms length distance to so called tough guy of Kailua.
on August 1,2013 | 05:02PM
kainalu wrote:
In the end, the jury will decide. I already have. Prior to going out on a night on the town, he was put on notice by an acquaintance that the "locals" had an issue with his ethnicity, so he armed himself. His "bravery" enhanced by a couple of beers, he involved himself in something he shouldn't have - there's a security guard right there. In the end, he shot and killed an unarmed man - period.
on August 1,2013 | 06:07PM
hanalei395 wrote:
"Too Bad .. for Deedy". ......Tough guys .....in OCCC ...in Halawa.
on August 1,2013 | 10:31PM
GONEGOLFIN wrote:
Lets see how you handle a guy tackling you onto the floor, sitting on top of you, and punching your face. I am not saying I know what happened, but that is the reason why we have a trial-To find out what transpired-to many amateur detictives here.
on August 1,2013 | 06:50PM
SueH wrote:
It's unfortunate Elderts wasn't taught not to hassle other customers and mind his own business instead of "puffing up" and "scowling" as he confronted Deedy.....it got him killed.
on August 1,2013 | 10:29PM
Mypualani wrote:
no it's unfortunate that Deedy went drinking with his friends and his gun, Yeah Elderts is dead but who's living in hell right here on earth? I'm sure Deedy's threats / terrorizing had nothing to do with that huh?
on August 2,2013 | 12:38AM
blkdrgn wrote:
It's unfortunate that Elderts also had alcohol, marijuana, and cocain in his system.
on August 2,2013 | 12:49PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Expert for hire ...to the highest bidder. Defense or Prosecution.
on August 1,2013 | 06:59PM
daniwitz13 wrote:
I'll take the job for free, and win this case. for the Prosecution. This case in essence is Murder. Elderts had NO CHANCE to win. The Person with the Gun will always win. Everything is irrelevant of who started it, who threw the first blow, who said this and who said that, who was on top, who was on the bottom, etc. the Person with the Gun will win, the other Person CANNOT WIN. This is almost the same as the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. It was Murder. The Prosecutor missed his chance on the right circumstance, and that was to convince the Jury that Trayvon had ZERO chance to win. Elderts Had NO CHANCE to win. No matter how one reconstruct or alter the Player's positions, Elderts CANNOT WIN. When only one outcome can happen, it is Murder. The Prosecution need to convince the Jury of this fact. Piityl
on August 1,2013 | 09:47PM
Fred01 wrote:
Yeah, shouldn't matter at all. Elderts was a coward bully punk who deserved it.
on August 1,2013 | 01:58PM
fairgame947 wrote:
Were you there witnessing the events? If not, you're comments are inappropriate.
on August 1,2013 | 02:04PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Fred ran away from a local after being slapped around and wants some kind of revenge.
on August 1,2013 | 02:06PM
allie wrote:
Fred is local hon..I know who he is. And he is just teasing you all. Geesh.
on August 1,2013 | 03:16PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Fred just found out that he's local and that allie "knows him". Geesh.
on August 1,2013 | 03:42PM
jess wrote:
Yikes!
on August 1,2013 | 04:08PM
aomohoa wrote:
Allie is so ignorant she has no idea what teasing is. When we make fun of her she thinks we are teasing. HON we are not teasing WE ALL think you are not who you say you are or a complete narcissistic nut case.
on August 1,2013 | 06:36PM
keola2011 wrote:
Local or not, Fred is an arrogant fool that has no respect for the dead.
on August 1,2013 | 04:46PM
saywhatyouthink wrote:
That explains much, he's just like you. You should take him back to the reservation with you.
on August 1,2013 | 04:48PM
allie wrote:
I have reservations about him not having a reservation on the reservation!
on August 1,2013 | 05:39PM
aomohoa wrote:
That is actually the funniest thing you have ever said. Giggle.
on August 1,2013 | 06:37PM
aomohoa wrote:
I thought maybe he was you. He's as crazy!
on August 1,2013 | 06:34PM
hanalei395 wrote:
I think Fred was just insulted.
on August 1,2013 | 07:10PM
copperwire9 wrote:
Shame.
on August 1,2013 | 02:15PM
PTF wrote:
Fred must of been bullied by Elderts in his youth.
on August 1,2013 | 02:19PM
keola2011 wrote:
Fred's comments derives from his past experience so I'm assuming he probably got bullied or beaten up by locals.
on August 1,2013 | 04:46PM
allie wrote:
Fred is local hon. Can't you tell he is teasing you?
on August 1,2013 | 05:38PM
aomohoa wrote:
I would like to hear it from him because you are clueless.
on August 1,2013 | 06:38PM
RingRing wrote:
You must have been bullied as a kid and maybe you still are being bullied as an adult. . . Nobody has the right to shoot a bully or a punk. . . If they acking up why not jus kick their dakine??? If Deedy didn't have a gun when he was not supposed to have a gun (i.e. while drinking) this just would have been another brawl between drunks. . . Deedy had a gun when he shouldn't have so yes, he was at least negligent.
on August 1,2013 | 04:27PM
saywhatyouthink wrote:
The incident would not have happened at all if Elderts and Medeiros had not been picking on the skinny haole guy. Elderts is at least partly responsible for his own death. Only a fool fights with a cop.
on August 1,2013 | 04:51PM
Mypualani wrote:
Yes but he and gutless was beaten with- in an inch of their lives! Sarcasm! I figure if you don't wanna get beat up, don't go starting fights. Simple
on August 1,2013 | 10:02PM
aomohoa wrote:
You really are a nut case and your comments are useless. When you are this outrageous your have nothing to contribute.
on August 1,2013 | 06:33PM
Mypualani wrote:
only coward bully punk I see is you on here posting your filth. das okay bumbye you going know.
on August 2,2013 | 12:57AM
Mythman wrote:
Kalaheo1 - what agenda do you have? I'm sick and tired of you blowing hot air. You remind me of Killi, err Kollin....
on August 1,2013 | 02:04PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Mythman wrote: "Kalaheo1 - what agenda do you have? I'm sick and tired of you blowing hot air."

I'm sorry to hear that.

As hard as this to believe, I don't have an "agenda." I'm pro-law enforcement. I don't drink and I don't scrap. I am pro-second amendment rights too. I think that owning a gun is a right that comes with responsibilities. It bothers me tremendously when people are irresponsible with firearms as it hurts responsible firearm owners. I have great law enforcement friends and I hate how Deedy's actions reflect on them. I don't think a badge is a license to assault and bully, ESPECIALLY if it's a badge from some half baked branch of the State Dept . I hate bullies and l Iike it when people are friendly and reasonable. I like intellectual honesty. I have other bias and beliefs too, but that might help you understand where I'm coming from.

How about this. If you catch me saying that isn't true, call me out on it.


on August 1,2013 | 02:45PM
stingray65 wrote:
Kalaheo 1, I strongly support Concealed to Carry!! I always like to pack my .45 cal. custom made by my friend Bill Wilson owner of Wilson Combat!! 2--1/2 pound trigger pull!! Maybe less. CQB!! That should be used by DEEDY! Close Quarter Combat!
on August 1,2013 | 05:09PM
Larry01 wrote:
Huh?
on August 1,2013 | 05:18PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: If Elderts wasn't touching Deedy, then why does the video clip show otherwise when Elderts tackled Deedy to the ground? Also, if Deedy wasn't being touched by Elderts, I doubt Deedy would have missed from almost point blank range twice before the third shot killed Elderts. My point is, it does matter. It's not looking good for a Murder 2 conviction. I still reserve judgement until all the facts come out, but at this point it looks like Manslaughter at best.
on August 1,2013 | 02:36PM
hanalei395 wrote:
According to the cashier Brandalyn Salzbrenner,... after Elderts was shot, he fell forward, pushing Deedy back and down, and giving Deedy "soft punches" until he died.
on August 1,2013 | 02:52PM
sailfish1 wrote:
"soft punches"? Now why would a dying man hold back punches against the man who shot him?
on August 1,2013 | 06:21PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Hey Dum-Dum ...A dying man would be weak and getting weaker. Is that too hard for you to get it?
on August 1,2013 | 06:46PM
Mypualani wrote:
@ Hanalei well judging from some of this freaks post yeah it is hard for him/ her or what ever to understand.
on August 1,2013 | 10:07PM
64hoo wrote:
you full of it, he did not give deedy soft punches soft punches would not have broken deedys nose and other bruises which the emergency doctor treated deedy for, a broken nose and other injuries so stop with the soft punches already they were not soft.
on August 1,2013 | 11:50PM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN let me jump in here and answer that. You obviously have not been following the unbiased witness testimony. Both of the unbiased witnesses (the Marine Bryd, and the McD's counter employee) have testified that Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting PRIOR to Elderts and Deedy struggling.
on August 1,2013 | 02:54PM
hapaguy wrote:
SA censors at it again. Let me try again. Two unbiased eyewitnesses (Bryd & Salzbrenner) have both testified that Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting FIRST then Elderts and Deedy struggled.
on August 1,2013 | 02:58PM
saywhatyouthink wrote:
anyone who would continue to fight with a federal agent even after he fired warning shots is just plain stu*id. He is at least partly responsible for his own death.
on August 1,2013 | 04:54PM
hapaguy wrote:
Warning shots? Really? Where are you getting that from? Uranus?
on August 1,2013 | 05:33PM
RetiredWorking wrote:
say, two warning shots in a densely populated area? Really?
on August 1,2013 | 06:17PM
Mypualani wrote:
Wow now it's warning shots hmmm mean!
on August 1,2013 | 10:08PM
aomohoa wrote:
I bet those weren't warning shots. He was just to drunk to shoot straight. It's lucky no one else got shot.
on August 1,2013 | 06:39PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
saywhatyouthink wrote: "anyone who would continue to fight with a federal agent even after he fired warning shots is just plain stu*id. He is at least partly responsible for his own death."

There's no such thing as a warning shot. Especially inside a crowded restaurant. A firearm is deadly weapon, not a noise maker.


on August 1,2013 | 07:53PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
MKN wrote: @Kalaheo1: If Elderts wasn't touching Deedy, then why does the video clip show otherwise when Elderts tackled Deedy to the ground? Also, if Deedy wasn't being touched by Elderts, I doubt Deedy would have missed from almost point blank range twice before the third shot killed Elderts. My point is, it does matter. It's not looking good for a Murder 2 conviction. I still reserve judgement until all the facts come out, but at this point it looks like Manslaughter at best.

Obviously, Elderts and Deedy had been in contact after Deedy kicked him the chest. But at the time Deedy started firing, Elderts wasn't in contact with Deedy. KailuaBraised posted a still image of when that shot was fired. For some reason, he did in in such a was as you can't see Elderts NOT touching Deedy and certainly not wrestling for the gun. You can see the cashiers cringing in shock and fear and one reaching up to cover her ears. http://imgur.com/imwcu90

Please don't take my word for it. Go back and look at frame 2:26 and 2:28 and see if you see Elderts hand on Deedy trying to wrestle away the gun.

As for Deedy missing at close range, it happens... but it happens more often if you've been out drinking all night.


on August 1,2013 | 03:05PM
allie wrote:
I just wish Deedy had not his gun to the restaurant. He should have kept it locked in his room.
on August 1,2013 | 03:17PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I think everyone wishes that. No one more than Deedy.
on August 1,2013 | 03:30PM
saywhatyouthink wrote:
Well .... Elderts probably wishes it more.
on August 1,2013 | 04:55PM
Mypualani wrote:
He's dead what's your point?
on August 1,2013 | 10:09PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: You can't tell if the first shot was fired at that time. In fact I doubt that it was. Elderts was clearly rushing towards Deedy at that point because the next frame shows Elderts left hand holding Deedy's right arm and Deedy backing up at this point. The cashiers were holding their ears after they disappeard from the screen into the corner. I still reserve judgement on this until I hear all the defense witnesses.
on August 1,2013 | 03:58PM
hapaguy wrote:
You are correct that from the video you can't tell when any of the shots were fired and that's what I have been arguing about with Kailuaraised all this time. YOU HAVE TO GO BY EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY as to when the shots were fired. We have had two unbiased eyewitnesses testify that Deedy pulled out his gun and shot FIRST then Deedy and Elderts struggles to the ground.
on August 1,2013 | 04:16PM
Hapa_Haole_Boy wrote:
Yet another foot in mouth comment from someone who doesn't stop to think for a moment before rambling. Varying expert testimonies from various expert witnesses are next to normal in a trial. Here is no exception. And yes it matters which of Deedy's three shots killed b/c if it was the third, as Deedy was on his back, there is a stronger argument that it was in self-defense since, the argument would go, Deedy was less able to protect himself while on his back than standing.
on August 1,2013 | 02:50PM
hapaguy wrote:
It does not matter which bullet was the fatal one it matters WHEN Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting. That is the essence of Deedy's defense. If the Prosecution can prove that Deedy fired before the last physical altercation that resulted with Elderts and Deedy on the ground then that would be murder. Two unbiased eyewitnesses (Bryd & Salzbrenner) have both testified that Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting FIRST then Elderts and Deedy struggled
on August 1,2013 | 03:01PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Hapa_Haole_Boy wrote: "And yes it matters which of Deedy's three shots killed b/c if it was the third, as Deedy was on his back, there is a stronger argument that it was in self-defense since, the argument would go, Deedy was less able to protect himself while on his back than standing."

Then what about Deedy pulling his gun and using deadly force and fired when he was still standing, and clearly before Elderts could possibly be "wrestling for control of the gun." What do you think those were, practice shots? Do you think he didn't REALLY fear for his life until Elderts was on top of him?


on August 1,2013 | 03:10PM
allie wrote:
pokes her hapa...
on August 1,2013 | 03:16PM
jess wrote:
To me, in a fight, if one person has a gun and the other one doesn't, the person with the gun will always have the upper hand. I agree with what you say about varying expert testimonies, it happens all the time. The prosecutors will call witnesses who go with their side and the defense will call witnesses who side with the defense. What really matters is how convincing the testimonies from each side are. I personally don't see how self defense is viable in this situation because Deedy was the original aggressor in the altercation between himself and Elderts. Many commentators on this site claim Elderts was a local punk looking for trouble, but I think Deedy was looking for trouble as well (a punk with a gun). The jury has a lot to weigh when they go to deliberations, and no matter what our personal convictions are regarding the matter the verdict is in the jury's hands.
on August 1,2013 | 04:17PM
allie wrote:
agree
on August 1,2013 | 05:40PM
false wrote:
Kalaheo1 yes we heard that but you must listen to ALL the evidence whether you want to hear it or believe it. We all can see that you are very passionate about this case and that's no fault to you but lets look at all the evidence than pass your judgement.
on August 1,2013 | 04:20PM
kukui_nut wrote:
With so many bystanders around, lucky no one else got shot.
on August 1,2013 | 08:10PM
Gary_S wrote:
Seems like Elderts was trying to keep Deedy from shooting him or anyone else in the restaurant when he took Deedy down to the floor since Deedy already fired twice.
on August 1,2013 | 01:59PM
Mythman wrote:
Sounds to me like Elderts was trying to get his hands on a weapon more deadly than his punk fists so he could bully some more innocent people.
on August 1,2013 | 02:05PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Mythman wrote: "Sounds to me like Elderts was trying to get his hands on a weapon more deadly than his punk fists so he could bully some more innocent people."

Elderts wasn't the one walking around Waikiki with a wiht a high capacity 9mm pistol and knife. It was Deedy who felt like he needed both to go out drinking in Waikik.

Elderts didn't approach, threaten to kill and assault Deedy. Deedy approached, threatened to kill Elderts.

I'll leave it to to decide which person carried deadly weapons with him to feel tough and bullied innocent people.


on August 1,2013 | 03:26PM
stingray65 wrote:
That was not a threat !! That was DEEDY's Promised. See what happened? Natural death! Means, you get shot Naturally your dead.!
on August 1,2013 | 05:15PM
HawaiiCheeseBall wrote:
Acquittal.
on August 1,2013 | 02:05PM
scooters wrote:
yes
on August 1,2013 | 04:37PM
stingray65 wrote:
I second that one!!
on August 1,2013 | 05:16PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Third. It's over for the E/M supporters.
on August 2,2013 | 04:12AM
entrkn wrote:
The defense witnesses are expert and accurate and the prosecution witnesses are clueless perjuring locals...
on August 1,2013 | 02:19PM
zelda123 wrote:
@ entrkn - your Bold hidden behind the computer, I bet you wouldn't dream of saying that to a "local's" face, dirty coward
on August 1,2013 | 03:31PM
Mypualani wrote:
No not dirty coward just Pilau ( filthy)
on August 1,2013 | 10:14PM
Larry01 wrote:
And you are....?
on August 1,2013 | 05:22PM
RetiredWorking wrote:
IRT entrkn, no matter. Deedy and his family have suffered intensely, financially, emotionally and career-wise. That Mainland white guy's life is shot, no matter if he is acquitted. He's paying the price now. A guilty verdict would only be icing on the cake. The wrongful death lawsuit is even more icing, even if he wins it. Some say Elderts deserved to die. I say Deedy deserves to be dragged through this trial and the next.
on August 1,2013 | 06:23PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Not really. An acquittal and he'll go back to his 6 figure job in DC. His insurance riders cover his attorney fees. Everyone will forget about him and move on.
on August 2,2013 | 04:13AM
hanalei395 wrote:
A so-called "expert" from out of state, who wasn't around, contradicts witnesses who were there and saw the shooting.
on August 1,2013 | 02:22PM
Fred01 wrote:
If the expert were a "local" would that make a difference?
on August 1,2013 | 02:41PM
MKN wrote:
@hanalei395: Yup. It's called having an expert witness that analyzes crime scene evidence and reconstructs the exact sequence of events in a particular case all the time. That's what a Forensic Pathologist does. I wonder why the prosecution didn't have their own Forensic Pathologist? Maybe they didn't like the results? *shrug* Still waiting for all of the evidence to come in before I make a judgement.
on August 1,2013 | 02:44PM
hanalei395 wrote:
I tried to respond to MKN, but for some reason, "it didn't go through". (Or "censored"). And I don't feel like doing it again.
on August 1,2013 | 03:19PM
MKN wrote:
Doh!
on August 1,2013 | 03:59PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Thanks MKN for responding to your own comments for me.
on August 1,2013 | 05:02PM
aomohoa wrote:
My comments to you frequently get censored. LOL
on August 1,2013 | 06:42PM
scooters wrote:
Heck, the lead detective didn't even know that a breath test was not conducted..LEAD DETECTIVE?????
on August 1,2013 | 04:39PM
saywhatyouthink wrote:
All the prosecutor had was an incompetent retired cop and the former medical examiner, neither knew which shot killed Elderts.
on August 1,2013 | 05:02PM
Mypualani wrote:
Well the ME did show a diagram of which way the bullet went, which was downward, he claims that's not the case. He has pix of the body not the real one that she examined, I believe the ME. He was not there I believe the testimony of the witnesses who saw what happened.
on August 1,2013 | 10:23PM
Mypualani wrote:
Sure,so by the same token, the Analisys of coons could be correct too. The video shows the cashiers reactions. The defense is doing an old Groucho Marx theme! Who are you gonna believe me or your Lying eyes.
on August 1,2013 | 10:20PM
aomohoa wrote:
They import expert witness' for trials all the time.
on August 1,2013 | 06:41PM
Mypualani wrote:
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, oh well.
on August 1,2013 | 10:15PM
312guy wrote:
thats the expert job to contradict each other
on August 2,2013 | 12:00AM
MKN wrote:
A forensic pathologist will win a ballistics argument versus a police detective everytime because that's all they do. They are experts and they study how each shot was fired and the trajectory each bullet took to its final resting place. I find it funny that Kalaheo1 now says it doesn't matter which of the shots hit Elderts. It actually does matter because the result will puts doubt into either the prosecution's or defense's version of events. In this case, it favors the defense's version of events. I don't know if that will result in a conviction or acquittal of Deedy, but we won't find that out until the end of the trial. I still reserve judgement until I hear all of the evidence. Interesting stuff.
on August 1,2013 | 02:29PM
hapaguy wrote:
Kalaheo and I have said from day one that it doesn't matter which one of the shots hit Elderts. So don't try to make like Kalaheo is changing his tune because he is not. We understand that what matters most and will be the difference between self defense and murder, is WHEN Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting. We have had two unbiased eyewitnesses (Bryd & Salzbrenner) testify that Deedy pulled his gun and started shooting FIRST then Elderts and Deedy struggled....
on August 1,2013 | 03:05PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Those are only two witnesses. How do we know that the defense doesn't have two other witnesses to contradict those two witnesses version of events? We don't know. That's my point. We need to see all the testimony first. It does matter because that's the difference between self defense and manslaughter. If it didn't matter, then why was the prosecution and defense trying to emphasize that it did matter? LOL!!!
on August 1,2013 | 04:06PM
hapaguy wrote:
You sound like Kraised: "How do we know that the defense doesn't have two other witnesses to contradict those two witnesses version of events". We don't know that so no sense trying to debate it. If and when the defense produces unbiased eyewitness testimony that contradicts Bryd and Salzbrenner then we can debate it. The Prosecution is not emphasizing which shot hit Elderts. Its the defense that is emphasizing which bullet hit Elderts because they are trying to confuse the jury. The Prosecution has called three witnesses that have all said that Deedy pulled his gun and shot first THEN Elderts and Deedy struggled....two of those witnesses gave conflicting testimony about which bullet struck Elderts because the prosecution understand that it doesn't matter which bullet hit him. It matters when Deedy shot at Elderts: Did he shoot at Elderts when they were struggling (self defense), or did he shoot at Elderts before they struggled (murder).....
on August 1,2013 | 04:24PM
mongoosa wrote:
But in Hawaii, the pathologist holds hands with the police and the prosecutors. They are not always expert in the field of firearms or trajectory. However, they obviously met so they could coach Coon how to testify.
on August 1,2013 | 06:40PM
Mypualani wrote:
So what is the ME who testified? A circus clown? And the eyewitness ( unbiased) who were there! Nah.
on August 1,2013 | 10:25PM
lawman1175 wrote:
These testimonies were to be expected, just as the prosecution's witnesses were expected to testify the way they did. I'm wating to hear how Deedy felt at that moment and what was going through his head. It is the jury's decision to determine how much weight is given to each person's testimony. Does the amount of $$$ paid to the expert witnesses in support of a position impact a juror's decision? Just a thought.
on August 1,2013 | 02:34PM
xxNOTxx wrote:
Expert witness = $$$$$ they will say whatever you need them to say
on August 1,2013 | 02:44PM
dsl wrote:
riiight!
on August 1,2013 | 04:25PM
MKN wrote:
@lawman1175: Good question. The prosecution had a lot of those. I wonder how many the defense hired besides this guy.
on August 1,2013 | 02:46PM
hanalei395 wrote:
The defense thinks the best "witness" for their side, would be to hire a so-called "expert". Their last resort. Their "best witness". The witness who wasn't there. The prosecution don't need hired "experts". They have the witnesses who were there.
on August 1,2013 | 03:32PM
MKN wrote:
@hanalei395: Detectives are not forensic experts, so it's curious as to why they chose to have a Detective do the forensic work versus a Doctor that practices forensic medicine. Jonathan Arden is a Medical Doctor with over 20 years of experience in forensic medicine, has done over 2300 autopsies, and has testified in over 500 cases as an expert witness. That trumps a plain old detective anytime who would not be qualified to do an autopsy and determine where, how far, and at what angle a bullet entered a person's body. He's probably not even their best witness, but that remains to be seen.
on August 1,2013 | 04:14PM
hanalei395 wrote:
It will be up to the local jury of who to believe ...a so-called "expert" from out-of-state, who wasn't a witness. ...or. ....local witnesses, who were at the crime scene. The local jurors have the last word, and the verdict
on August 1,2013 | 04:37PM
cojef wrote:
The mix of the jury will determine the outcome. At the conclusion of the trial, there will be a lot of bulling during the deliberations, and the bully will sway the panel one way or the other.
on August 1,2013 | 02:55PM
nodaddynotthebelt wrote:
Clarification: "Deedy is claiming he shot the 23-year-old Kailua man in self defense" He shot Eldert after he started the fight with a preemptive strike with a kick that a law enforcement officer is trained to avoid. Law enforcement officers are not trained to start a fight. They are trained to prevent it.
on August 1,2013 | 02:45PM
MKN wrote:
@nodaddynotthebelt: Well said. Deedy really messed up in this regard if he didn't identify himself and did threaten to shoot Elderts as the prosecution asserts.
on August 1,2013 | 02:51PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Mythman wrote: "Sounds to me like Elderts was trying to get his hands on a weapon more deadly than his punk fists so he could bully some more innocent people."

Look it was Deedy who appraoched the seated Elderts, threatened to kill him and then assaulted him with a kick to his chest. When Elderts fought back, Deedy drew out his concealed weapon and immediately started firing.

By the time Deedy fired the 3rd shot, Elderts clearly was in fear for his life and completely justified in trying to neutralize the violent and out of control Deedy.


on August 1,2013 | 03:13PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: How do you know Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest? Also, if anyone got kicked in the chest full force, they wouldn't be breathing very well or would have been knocked back. When the supposed kick happened, I didn't see Elderts recoil back. Stop making stuff up.
on August 1,2013 | 04:16PM
RetiredWorking wrote:
MKN, ummm, after several witnesses' collaborating testimonies, the fact that Deedy kicked Elderts is a given.
on August 1,2013 | 06:27PM
MKN wrote:
@RetiredWorking: Yes I agree Deedy kicked Elderts, but if Elderts was sitting down or behind the table when the kick occurred (as was stated by some of the witnesses), it would have been almost impossible for Deedy to kick Elderts in the chest. The witnesses never stated that Elderts was kicked in the chest. They just said Elderts was kicked by Deedy. It doesn't say where he was kicked. It probably wasn't even a very good kick since it didn't seem to affect Elderts' ability to kick Deedy's okole. LOL!!!
on August 2,2013 | 12:48AM
hapaguy wrote:
Just because you have not heard about it does not mean he is making it up. You need to pay attention before you comment. Even Deedy's defense does not dispute that Deedy kicked Elderts first. Read it here in the defense declaration that was filed with the court back in June 26th, 2012: http://www.deedysupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Brook-Hart-memo-26-34.pdf On a side note, the defense declaration is a good piece of fiction. It doesn't match any of the witness testimony or more importantly it doesn't match the video at all. See if you can find how many lies are in that defense declaration....lol
on August 1,2013 | 06:53PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: My point is no one said that Elderts was kicked in the chest. Just that he was kicked. I agree that Elderts was kicked by Deedy, but not necessarily in the chest. That's the kind of stuff I am saying that people need to stop making up.
on August 2,2013 | 12:57AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Thank you. I didn't have the energy to explain that AGAIN.
on August 1,2013 | 03:17PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
That was for you hapaguy. The SA is sending my responses all over the place.
on August 1,2013 | 03:33PM
hapaguy wrote:
You are welcome. I'm with you: its getting tiring rebutting these Deedy supporters and their same misinformation over and over again....
on August 1,2013 | 04:39PM
hanalei395 wrote:
What the Deedy supporters are doing:... "When you lie, make it a big lie, and do it often. And people will then come to believe it": Joseph Goebbels.
on August 1,2013 | 05:31PM
hapaguy wrote:
True Dat!
on August 1,2013 | 05:36PM
Peacenik wrote:
yeah, you should know.
on August 1,2013 | 06:42PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Peacenik REALLY knows.
on August 1,2013 | 07:20PM
zelda123 wrote:
Jr. G. Man Deedy killed Elderts because he was getting his face rearranged - Simple
on August 1,2013 | 03:28PM
Peacenik wrote:
yeah, sistah. braddah won da fight. congradulat'em for me wen you see'em,k?
on August 1,2013 | 08:38PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Try using that phony pidgin to a wrong person, which is a put-down ...and YOUR face will be rearranged.
on August 1,2013 | 09:23PM
Peacenik wrote:
typical "braddahbradda" sydrome which got Elderts killed with the help of Medeirdos flapping of his gums, when not needed.
on August 2,2013 | 08:47AM
Mypualani wrote:
With a slap no less.
on August 1,2013 | 10:31PM
dsl wrote:
Jessica is an expert at what? Flauntng? Makeup? Drinking? Lieing? Clue us in muffin
on August 1,2013 | 04:26PM
scooters wrote:
Dam, it took 3 shots?
on August 1,2013 | 04:34PM
cigaripo wrote:
DEFENSE expert. An expert who testifies what the defense want interpreted to their advantage. All the way from Virginia? Must 've gone thru quite a few experts (from HI /West Coast / all the way across to Virginia) to find him. How come there isn't a pathology report done by the State Dept. unless it incriminates or is just plain inconclusive to say which shot killed Eldert. Just this expert finds without a doubt the third shot did it. Because of scheduling issues he testifies out of turn, Hmmm.....need to go testify for some other DEFENSE...way to make a living. If placed in Elderts position, I'd be the one fighting for my life after getting kicked and then fired at, wouldn't anyone? Self defense in Hawaii is you turn and run to get away. Deedy didn't turn and run, he advanced at Elderts, drew his gun, then back peddled and fired when Elderts charged him. If he gets away with this the public will be in trouble. Any incident could be self defense for law enforcement, all need be reported is he (unarmed) came after me even though I told him I'm an officer. Especially if there's no witnesses.
on August 1,2013 | 04:41PM
xxNOTxx wrote:
Lawyers look for experts in the fields they need to support their theory and btw, there are a lot of expert witnesses out there. The more and higher their credentials, the more you will pay. They charge per hour, and if they are out of state, you'll also pay for their transportation, meals & hotel. They are like hired guns.
on August 1,2013 | 05:19PM
xxNOTxx wrote:
Here's Jonathan Arden's website. http://ardenforensics.com/
on August 1,2013 | 05:27PM
hapaguy wrote:
good info
on August 1,2013 | 05:55PM
RetiredWorking wrote:
xxNOTxx, it must've cost tens of thousands of dollars for Jonathan Arden's services.
on August 1,2013 | 06:30PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Expert for hire ...to the highest bidder. Defense or Prosecution.
on August 1,2013 | 07:22PM
xxNOTxx wrote:
It was brought to the attention in court today that Mr Expert Witness based his findings without personally examining the body. However the Prosecutor's witness (previous medical examiner) did personally examine the body.
on August 1,2013 | 08:34PM
xxNOTxx wrote:
I would presume so, based at seeing his credentials on his website---btw he gets paid hourly for just reading anything the lawyers send to him connected to the case.
on August 1,2013 | 08:51PM
whs1966 wrote:
I agree with Keola. As a federal agent Deedy undoubtedly took martial arts training. So if he's such a tough guy why did he need to use his gun? Just a punk who had too much to drink & was full of himself.
on August 1,2013 | 07:05PM
Peacenik wrote:
we see many smallish women cops today. are they expected to go head to head with a guy twice their size? their leveler is their badge and gun.
on August 2,2013 | 08:44AM
51butterflies wrote:
This Arden from Virginia did not examine the murdered body. He must be getting paid lots to fly out to Hawaii and get on the stand. I'm disgusted with courtroom games. Commit the crime, do the time. Deedy endangred a lot of lives with drinking and firing his gun in a public restaurant . His defense may be trying to get him a lesser conviction, but he will suffer with the divine power.
on August 1,2013 | 09:41PM
51butterflies wrote:
What a TRAGICALLY HIGH PRICE had to be paid for this APEC conference to be held in Honolulu. Many of us will associate only this tragedy with Apec. I for one ,NEVER want the APEC to be held in Hawaii. It is very difficult to like or even forgive a person like DEEDY . He did not take the time to understand Hawaii's people, he was selfish to carry a gun and selfish to drink and selfish to create a dangerous situation in a family restaurant. I would hope he would give back to the people of Hawaii in a kind way, when this case is over, to make amends for his mistakes, selfishness, prejudices.
on August 1,2013 | 10:27PM
51butterflies wrote:
It is very difficult to like and even more difficult to forgive a person like Deedy. His selfish behaviors, drinking, packing a gun, bullying and prejudices toward the culture of Hawaii are prevalent. It was a tragedy to have the APEC conference held in Honolulu. I would never want APEC to be held in Hawaii again.
on August 1,2013 | 10:33PM
Peacenik wrote:
but easy to love a H hating local who had run ins with the law before, partook in illegal drugs, flauting the law and supporting drug cartels, pestering customers who are just minding their own business, have hot-headed short fuse side-kick who think he had sufficient reason to act threatening to someone cause he perceived a stink-eye. yep, great local reasoning at it's finest.
on August 2,2013 | 08:42AM
Mypualani wrote:
This guy did not conduct the autopsy, so he can read it any way he wants, I read the cross from the prosecution.
on August 1,2013 | 10:36PM
64hoo wrote:
reading all the comments about which shot killed elderts, heres another way, after elderts knock deedy down by punching him in the nose they both had there hands on the gun when struggling while wrestling for the gun two shots were fired while they held the gun, that explains the two bullets they found in the wall that's why elderts had powder burns on the side of his face, but somehow while they both were fighting for the gun the third bullet hit elderts in the chest which killed him. that's why I want to wait and see if powder burns were found around the wound which means deedy got the upper hand while they were wrestling for the gun. so thats another way it could have happened.
on August 2,2013 | 12:03AM
312guy wrote:
i can see that this panel is split on locals vs Mainlanders I say to the two panels view the evidence and there you will find the truth. there is three sides to the truth yours, mine and the truth. I watched the video and saw two young men come in and scope out the restaurant as in looking for something, the rest is history, someone got killed and the second his caree is gone, should have been a good witness and called 911.
on August 2,2013 | 12:06AM
Mypualani wrote:
He did not examine the body himself, Our ME did I believe that this guy is an expert but I would like to know what he is basing his testimony on, pictures and theories, There is taped evidence that Deedy fired before Elderts even got on top of the agent, against the two un biased witnesses and the tape I believe the Hawaii ME. I would like to see what the cross on this expert says.
on August 2,2013 | 12:27AM
Mypualani wrote:
Saw the testimony for the security guard, She said Elderts waved at her, but it was in a disrespectful way. She didn't hear Deedy identify himself as a lawman. But that Elderts was still talking to Perrine when they both sat down. Basically she said they were both two trouble makers, making noise before Deedy went over and softly talked to Elderts, thus the outburst from Elderts, "what you going shoot me? then fn shoot me then" according to a sober witness who testified. And Ms. West she is full of excrement on cross, like her boy friend she remembered some things and forgot. Puniala's fordays
on August 2,2013 | 12:35AM
Peacenik wrote:
apparently she has more cajones than perrine, who looking out for his own back.
on August 2,2013 | 10:10AM
Mypualani wrote:
okay what is Deedy's excuse for the first two fired shots, obviously he fire at least one before they even hit the floor, that is the one that went to the wall. You know what is sad if Deedy killed a bystander it would be only manslaughter, because he was just reckless. That is what this case boils down to a reckless idiot, as for the expert he wasn't there, he didn't examine the body and what he saying is also supposition and theory, just like Coons. going by the video I guess when you tell a lie you make it big and you stick by it. The Defense is making the victim out to be deserving of getting shot. people on here are saying the same thing. Deedy broke two laws before he had to defend himself and now Ms. West is saying that she heard something about a gun, her mind was clear and fluid...wow after all them drinks? please and now this guy?
on August 2,2013 | 12:55AM
MKN wrote:
Yes he was kicked, but where in the collaborating testimonies does it say that he was kicked in the chest by Deedy? My point is people need to stop making up details like "Oh he was kicked in the chest" when the reports all say that Deedy kicked Elderts, but it doesn't say he was kicked in the chest.
on August 2,2013 | 12:59AM
MKN wrote:
Well I was watching KITV earlier tonight and the security guard was on the witness stand and she stated that Elderts and Medeiros were acting like punks and they were mouthing off at Perrine and the security guard herself up until Deedy intervened. Interesting development in this case. The first independent witness that's testifying for the defense. This case could go either way if the defense has enough independent witnesses. I wonder if the other two cashiers are going to testify along with the McDonald's manager and several yet unnamed other witnesses that were in the restaurant at the time.
on August 2,2013 | 01:09AM
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