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CHRISTOPHER DEEDY MURDER TRIAL


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Alleged drunken state described

Deedy was unsteady and had glassy eyes before the shooting of Kollin Elderts, witnesses testify

By Ken Kobayashi

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 06:28 p.m. HST, Jul 31, 2013


Two customers and the first police officer to arrive at the 2011 fatal shooting scene at a Waikiki McDonald's restaurant testified Monday that they thought State Department special agent Christopher Deedy was intoxicated.

"He seemed pretty drunk," Alexander Byrd, a former Kaneohe Marine, testified.

Taylor Auyoung, another customer, said she thought Deedy was drunk because he was unsteady on his feet and had glassy eyes.

Police officer Sterling Naki testified that when he arrived at the McDonald's in the early morning of Nov. 5, 2011, he could smell alcohol on Deedy's breath and his eyes were glassy.

"When he spoke to me, I could smell his breath," the officer said.

Naki said he handcuffed Deedy after the agent told him he had a gun and he shot Elderts, who was lying in a pool of blood.

The three witnesses took the stand on the fifth day of Deedy's trial on a charge of murdering 23-year-old Kollin Elderts of Kailua at the fast-food restaurant on Kuhio Avenue.

Deedy, 29, of Arlington, Va., was here to help provide security for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference.

The prosecution contends Deedy was driven by alcohol and inexperience when he fired three shots from his 9 mm Glock. Two shots hit a wall, and a third to Elderts' chest was fatal.

Deedy's lawyers are not disputing he fired the weapon, but contend the agent acted in self-defense as a drunken Elderts attacked him and tried to grab the gun.

Deedy had been out to Chinatown and Waikiki bars earlier and drank beer, but he was not intoxicated, the defense contends.

He declined to take a breath test after police refused to let him speak to his supervisors, according to the defense.

WHAT'S NEXT
Former Marine Alexander Byrd, a customer at the McDonald’s restaurant on Kuhio Avenue, will resume testifying today. Other witnesses who might take the stand include police evidence technicians.

Without test results, the prosecution has been putting on witnesses in an effort to show that Deedy was intoxicated.

Byrd, a Kaneohe Marine at the time of the shooting, testified Deedy could hardly keep his eyes open, swayed back and forth, mumbled and kept "talking trash."

"He was just in and out," said Byrd, who now lives in New Jersey and attends college.

The former Marine said he tried to defuse an argument between Deedy and another man, a reference to Elderts' friend Shane Medei­ros, then he later tried to calm down Elderts.

Byrd said Elderts was "furious" and looked past him at Deedy, while a woman told Deedy to "stop" and tried to persuade him to "leave it alone and walk away."

The woman has been identified as Jessica West, the girlfriend of Deedy's friend Adam Gutow­ski. The couple was with Deedy the previous night and early morning.

Byrd is scheduled to return to the stand today and testify about what happened next at the restaurant.

Auyoung testified she heard Elderts say, "If you're going to shoot me, then f—— shoot me."

She said she recalled hearing two "pops" and then later a third "pop," but didn't see Deedy kick Elderts or Elderts punch Deedy. She also said she did not see Deedy pull out his gun.

Auyoung acknowledged that she told police that Elderts was the first to be "physical," but testified she doesn't remember that from the restaurant.

Naki testified that when he arrived at McDonald's, Deedy was rendering aid by putting his fingers on the wound to stop the bleeding.

Naki testified he allowed Deedy to continue rendering aid.

"The defendant appeared to know what he was doing," the officer said.

Naki also testified Deedy was cooperative with police.

During a recess earlier in the day, Circuit Judge Karen Ahn found Deedy's attorney, Brook Hart, in contempt of court and fined him $250.

Ahn ruled that Hart was testifying when he questioned Naki about whether a woman shown on the surveillance video had blood on her hands outside the restaurant. Under court rules, lawyers are not supposed to provide testimony, which is supposed to come from witnesses.

Hart argued he had a "good faith" basis for asking the question. The judge refused to reconsider the request.

But after the jury was excused at the end of the day, Ahn withdrew her contempt finding, indicating that the defense had established that the woman did have blood on her hands.

Auyoung had testified that the woman was her friend and was with her at the restaurant.

Hart said he had never been held in contempt for asking a question in his 44 years of practice.






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mokebla wrote:
A drunk person with a gun whether an officer of the law or not is against the law. HPD drop the ball for not testing Deedy.
on July 16,2013 | 04:16AM
kiragirl wrote:
He refused.
on July 16,2013 | 05:34AM
lee1957 wrote:
Get a warrant.
on July 16,2013 | 11:33AM
hapaguy wrote:
*sigh* been over this so many times.... they could have gotten a warrant but it would have taken so long to get that by the time they executed it the alcohol in his system would have metabolized and the reading would not have been accurate.....
on July 16,2013 | 01:24PM
wiliki wrote:
The cop should have assisted Deedy in helping Eldert. If the bleeding could have been stopped, Eldert might not have died. I guess he didn't want to get his uniform dirty.
on July 16,2013 | 01:17PM
Mypualani wrote:
Really? Maybe you should go and tell Officer Naki that, but you won't
on July 16,2013 | 02:54PM
Nevadan wrote:
wiliki. You are sick
on July 16,2013 | 03:18PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
wiliki wrote: "The cop should have assisted Deedy in helping Eldert. If the bleeding could have been stopped, Eldert might not have died. I guess he didn't want to get his uniform dirty."

That is outrageous and completely inappropriate.

HPD officer Naki WAS acting like law enforcement. He was first on the scene to a bloody shooting and needed to secure the scene so that paramedics and HFD could safely do their job!

You post a lot of off-the-wall and wacky stuff, but this is a new low for you. You owe HPD officer Naki and the entire HPD an apology.


on July 16,2013 | 03:28PM
false wrote:
Didn't Deedy's friend introduce him to the fact that Deedy should be aware of "hate attitudes in Hawaii". Didn't Deedy carry a gun in anticipation of hate action. Then wasn't he the one profiling to create the hate action. Isn't this a Civil Rights violation too? We don't teach our kids how to act around feds or cops. Our cops know how to treat us. This defendant is wrong on so many counts.
on July 16,2013 | 05:50AM
MakikiView wrote:
Elderts didn't deserve to die, but his actions seem to have demonstrated that the warnings Deedy received about "hate attitudes in Hawaii" were accurate.
on July 16,2013 | 06:16AM
hapaguy wrote:
It's pretty obvious from the video that Deedy was the instigator in all this. And also Deedy's friend Adam Gutowski didn't help matters by jumping in two against one after Deedy struck the first blow. Elderts in my opinion was just trying to defend himself in all this.
on July 16,2013 | 09:11AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: How is Elderts defending himself by rushing at Deedy twice with the second time resulting in Elderts being shot in what looks like self defense? It doesn't matter if Deedy kicked him first. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unfortunately, Elderts made a fatal mistake of rushing Deedy the second time even though Deedy attempted to tell Elderts to stop.
on July 16,2013 | 10:32AM
hapaguy wrote:
It doesn't matter if Deedy kicked him first? So I can punch you in the face and if you defend yourself then you're in the wrong because the first punch doesn't matter? Get real! Also, Elderts never rushed Deedy! Elderts was within his right to defend himself after Deedy threw the first blow.
on July 16,2013 | 11:04AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: To your first question, yes because then it becomes a fight and both parties could be charged with disorderly conduct. To your second question, yes Elderts did rush at Deedy the second time when Deedy tried to get Elderts to stop with his hand gesture, but Elderts kept rushing at him, so Deedy pulled the gun out. What are you talking about? Deedy was backing up the entire time during that second attack by Elderts. It's all there on the video. It seems to me you only see what you want to see. Not what's actually on the video.
on July 16,2013 | 11:12AM
hapaguy wrote:
If you watch the video closely, after Elderts knocks down Deedy, Elderts TURNS AROUND WITH HIS BACK FACING DEEDY to help Medeiros. DEEDY MOVES TOWARDS ELDERTS not the other way around. Deedy already struck Elderts once that's why Elderts turns around to defend himself. Play it back frame by frame. You will see that I am correct.....
on July 16,2013 | 11:27AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: You didn't mention the part that after Deedy got knocked down the first time, he got up and started backing up, but Elderts approached Deedy and Deedy at that point held his hand out to attempt to stop Elderts, but Elderts kept advancing towards Deedy. That's when Deedy was trying to retreat while Elderts was rushing after Deedy. Deedy got his gun out and Elderts grabbed Deedy's arm while rushing at him and that's about when the shooting started as both men fell to the floor out of camera view. I think you need glasses brah. LOL!
on July 16,2013 | 11:34AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
hapa is correct. The video shows Deedy the aggressor.
on July 16,2013 | 12:15PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy and NanakuliBoss: Ultimately it doesn't matter what you guys or I think. We'll find out the final verdict in a couple of weeks.
on July 16,2013 | 12:25PM
gobows wrote:
you gotta believe, when Deedy assumed that defensive position, with arm out and backing up, that TOLD Elderts, he was the Alpha at that point in time. What's an Alpha going to want to do? ATTACK!......Deedy's use of deadly force ENDED all of that.
on July 16,2013 | 12:53PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Anyone who says Deedy was the aggressor when the shooting happened is ignoring. Look at this frame shot. It clearly shows Deedy in a defensive position and Elderts choose to rush him. The first scuffle was over. There was no one in striking distance of Elderts. Deedy was not advancing towards him. It's going to make it very difficult for a murder charge to stick. http://imgur.com/ixl9mCS
on July 16,2013 | 01:39PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "Anyone who says Deedy was the aggressor when the shooting happened is ignoring. Look at this frame shot. It clearly shows Deedy in a defensive position and Elderts choose to rush him. The first scuffle was over. There was no one in striking distance of Elderts. Deedy was not advancing towards him. It's going to make it very difficult for a murder charge to stick. http://imgur.com/ixl9mCS"

Are you serious?! Did you post the wrong picture by mistake?

Because that photo shows an unarmed man standing with his arms by his side, while Deedy is committing assault and battery by shoving him in the chest and pulling a concealed weapon from behind his back.

That is about the most incriminating photo of Deedy you could have possibly posted.

You really need to think about what you just wrote and the photo you keep posting. You can't claim that no one is "within striking distance of Elderts" while posting a picture of Deedy striking Elderts on the chest with his open hand WHILE reaching for a concealed weapon.

And while he is being assaulted AGAIN by Deedy, his hands are down by his side. The more you talk, the worse it gets.


on July 16,2013 | 03:48PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@kalaheo, let's be serious. You keep ignoring that Elderts rushed Deedy a second after this frame and swung/reached for his weapon. Deedy is clearly trying to stop the fight. How could he possibly be striking someone like that? Deedy choose to attack a second time and paid for it. It's going to be real tough to get a murder charge to stick.
on July 16,2013 | 04:18PM
wiliki wrote:
I agree. Anyone who throw a punch at an armed cop must either be real drunk or real lolo.
on July 16,2013 | 01:20PM
saveparadise wrote:
Do you have access to some other video that is not available to the public? From what I see on the news I cannot determine any of the events you have conclusions on. Maybe you are at the trial and saw the whole video with sound? Can you read lips from the grainy pictures?? Two wrongs don't make a right and I am not sure of anything at this point. Beware the news media can create bias. There is more testimony to come......
on July 16,2013 | 11:19AM
gobows wrote:
yes, last week, there was a video of the raw feed from the resturant. you might have to go to the archives to find it.
on July 16,2013 | 12:51PM
hapaguy wrote:
I am assuming you a commenting me. I downloaded the whole video from KHON and from KITV's websites and I played them back on my computer frame by frame so you can tell what's happening. Also, in none of my comments did I ever say I could tell what they were saying from reading their lips on the video.....only repeated what was said in testimony or from the Prosecutors report.....
on July 16,2013 | 01:36PM
saveparadise wrote:
Yup Hapa, Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, everyone sees the world with a different point of view. I differ in the your opinion and the conclusions you are making from the same videos that I have seen. I cannot come to any real conclusions other than this was a fight that could have been avoided by both parties. Bottom line is was there justification in use of deadly force. If the situation could have been avoided by Elderts I would say yes. I do not believe from the videos that Deedy would have even unholstered the gun had Elderts backed off. Once Deedy was on the floor and cornered he did what any officer or entity entitled with a carry permit would do if faced with the danger of someone turning your own firearm on you.
on July 16,2013 | 02:12PM
hapaguy wrote:
Well I see it the way our HPD and our Prosecutors office sees it: Deedy was the aggressor, Deedy threw the first blow, and Deedy shot an unarmed man.
on July 16,2013 | 08:53PM
soundofreason wrote:
" Didn't Deedy carry a gun in anticipation of hate action">>>Pure supposition. It is MORE likely that an off duty cop carries a gun at ALL times when off duty.
on July 16,2013 | 07:14AM
Jonas wrote:
It will be hard to prove that he carried the gun anticipating "hate action." And even so, that wouldn't necessarily be a crime. They would have to prove he intended to use the weapon to kill someone.
on July 16,2013 | 08:30AM
saveparadise wrote:
You are very correct Jonas. Also it is not a crime to defend yourself. Doesn't matter if you are drunk or sober. This is a tough one for the jury. You are in danger of great physical harm or death anytime someone is striking you physically with fists or other. Since no other motive can be established then manslaughter would be the most Deedy could be convicted on. IF convicted........
on July 16,2013 | 11:27AM
MKN wrote:
@saveparadise: Well said.
on July 16,2013 | 11:58AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
The video showed that Deedy was much bigger then Elderts.
on July 16,2013 | 12:19PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: Size doesn't matter since it appears from the video that Deedy couldn't scrap for beans. LOL!!!
on July 16,2013 | 12:26PM
hapaguy wrote:
LOL. Something you and I can finally agree on!....YAY!
on July 16,2013 | 12:52PM
MKN wrote:
LOL! Like I said, I call it like I see it. Deedy should never have been a federal agent. What kinda federal agent doesn't know how to defend himself? They should kick him out just for that. LOL!!!
on July 16,2013 | 01:11PM
gobows wrote:
I'd put my $$ on the coked out local, over the intoxicated mainlander in a fist fight.......
on July 16,2013 | 12:55PM
MKN wrote:
Rajah dat!!! LOL!!!
on July 16,2013 | 01:14PM
saveparadise wrote:
Not so sure. Look who won the fight for the gun even though his face was getting bashed. He was fighting for posession of the gun and not striking back. Try it and you will understand. Deedy knew that he was in a live or die situation and that gun would determine who would have the best chance of surviving.
on July 16,2013 | 01:37PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
I agree.
on July 16,2013 | 01:40PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Jonas, maybe he didn't intend to kill someone, but in fact he did use a weapon to kill Elderts. This is not a hate crime, but it has solid evidence of manslaughter.
on July 16,2013 | 12:18PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: That's not what he's being charged with though. He's being charged with Murder 2, not Manslaughter. That's been my entire point. Deedy if he does get convicted of anything will be Manslaughter at the most. It's not and never was a Murder 2 case.
on July 16,2013 | 12:28PM
hapaguy wrote:
The charge is 2nd Degree Murder because the difference between Manslaughter and 2nd Degree Murder is for 2nd Degree Murder there has to be "Malice Aforethought". The Prosecution contends that Deedy was telling Elderts beforehand that he was going to shoot him. Sounds like malice aforethought to me......
on July 16,2013 | 12:40PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: That's a pretty high standard to prove. That's why at the most he will be charged with Manslaughter if anything at all. That's been my entire point. If there was malice, Deedy would have pulled his gun out before they started the confrontation or right after the first time he was tackled before Elderts began approaching Deedy that second time. There's enough doubt in this case that Murder 2 will not stick. Manslaughter is debatable and still a possibility, but I doubt he will get convicted of it.
on July 16,2013 | 12:55PM
hapaguy wrote:
It doesn't matter when he pulled his gun out because according to witnesses he told Elderts from the beginning he (Deedy) was going to shoot Elderts in the face. THAT"S MALICE AFORETHOUGHT......
on July 16,2013 | 01:09PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hapaguy. That's not enough to prove malice aforethought. Like MKN said, why would Deedy fight and get tackled if he intended to murder Elderts?
on July 16,2013 | 01:45PM
hapaguy wrote:
Kraised let me help you out: Premeditation in the killing of someone = Murder 1. Get into a confrontation and you "tell them your going to shoot them in the face" (malice aforethought) and then you shoot and kill them (no premeditation) = Murder in the Second Degree. Get into a scuffle and you kill someone with no premeditation or declarations = manslaughter.
on July 16,2013 | 02:08PM
gobows wrote:
Gotta wait for the testimony for who said, what said.....
on July 16,2013 | 12:57PM
saveparadise wrote:
"kuli", the only reason Deedy is on trial is because he is the survivor. It would be Elderts if he was the survivor. No winners here. The prosecution would have a case against either of the combatants. No doubt.
on July 16,2013 | 12:52PM
peanutgallery wrote:
Racism is alive and well in Hawaii. Elderts shouldn't have had to die for carrying that chip on his shoulder, but it sure didn't help him much.
on July 16,2013 | 05:53AM
8082062424 wrote:
That could be reversed to say it was Deedy who had a chip on his shoulder and was looking to pick a a fight with any local
on July 16,2013 | 06:08AM
inHilo wrote:
And if both men had chips on their shoulders? But what if one of the men had a gun and had been drinking? How much? Then one of the witnesses, a policeman says the gunman looked drunk but the policeman let the drunk handle the first aid for a serious gunshot wound. What? Since when? Maybe it wasn't until after the gunman stood up from tending the wound that the policeman noticed. And how does someone who feels threatened in close quarters fire two shots and miss? Unless he's drunk. And really, is it perfectly fine to be drinking, even one beer, and carry your firearm from work, then try to kick someone in MacDonald's and end up killing the person? One thing for certain, anyone who can figure out what happened from these news reports is a real detective. But I do know that without the gun and without the drinking, the worst thing we have is a fist fight in MacDonalds.
on July 16,2013 | 07:17AM
8082062424 wrote:
good post. but seem these days some one starts a fight and when they are not winning the pull a gun or knife
on July 16,2013 | 08:34AM
peanutgallery wrote:
Well said.
on July 16,2013 | 09:42AM
saveparadise wrote:
Hilo, Fist fights end in death too. More tragically you end up in wheelchair or paralyzed like Andy Ganigan. It's the attitude. People gotta lose the attitude. You might win the battle but lose the war when you spend the rest of your life in prison and carry the burden of knowing what you did to another human being. Respect for the aina and respect for people. Teach your children well!
on July 16,2013 | 11:34AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
He missed because Elderts was charging at him and going for the gun. It's not like he took a shooting stance and aimed at Elderts from a standard target distance. It's going to be interesting to hear where the missed bullets landed. I bet that will become a major factor in the defense's case. For instance, if the bullets went into the ceiling it proves Elderts was pushing him down. It'll also be interesting to see where the bullet entered Eldert and at what angle.
on July 16,2013 | 01:49PM
allie wrote:
no evidence of that. He knew nothing about "locals." That is a meaningless geographical term anyway. He was reacting to a white man-Elderts-who was acting up but did not know Deedy was an inebriated incompetent with a gun.
on July 16,2013 | 07:40AM
8082062424 wrote:
Sure allie he was warned about locals from a fellow co worker. Put a picture of Elderts And Deddy side by side then tell me they both white. . elderts features are more Asian then anything else. so if elderts is white so are you. keep in mind white is a colour. besides being a dumb blond you need glasses
on July 16,2013 | 08:33AM
allie wrote:
I am light brown. Elderts as that white look about him. Trying to hide his European background behind his self-described "local" reputation is silly. Only in Hawaii do white people pretend not to be white! Bizarre.
on July 16,2013 | 03:17PM
livinginhawaii wrote:
Allie mentioned that they are both caucasian. If that is the case how could race possibly be a factor?
on July 16,2013 | 07:23AM
allie wrote:
Elderts is white. Portuguese-caucasians are white according to USA census. Apparently some Portuguese out here pretend they are not white. Only in Hawaii..sigh...
on July 16,2013 | 07:41AM
LKK56 wrote:
That's because local Portuguese do not want to be labeled a "Deedy". Deedy picks a fight, when he is losing he does the cowardly act of shooting the victim all in the name of self-defense. He missed two times at close quarters. What would have happened if those two shots had hit other bystanders? People like Deedy deserves the electrical chair.
on July 16,2013 | 12:20PM
allie wrote:
Again, Deedy should never have been walking around with a gun. He will be fired for total unprofessional incompetence. It was a nothing conference so they must have sent the dregs. Elderts was just the typical scoundrel acting up and boasting. I see a million of them in Waikiki, on the bus, hanging around, etc. But he did not deserve to be shot. Again, McDonald's should be sued for not providing a secure place of business late at night. One burly guard at the door and the shoving match would have quickly ended. Just a needless tragedy. Finally, what is the race content here? Both men are white. In the Zimmerman tragedy, Zimmerman is Latino. He was reacting to the fact that criminals on the mainland are disproportionately black young males. Bad judgment on Zimmerman's part but no evidence of murder at all. He was not irrational to be suspicious of Trevon, however.
on July 16,2013 | 07:39AM
8082062424 wrote:
Zimmerman' was also half white just like you
on July 16,2013 | 08:35AM
saveparadise wrote:
Allie is white? Is she a he? We should have a pot luck with name tags for some real surprises. Anonimity rules!
on July 16,2013 | 11:38AM
allie wrote:
I am part white and yes, a she. Look on FB. Geesh.
on July 16,2013 | 03:18PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Peanut ,I think it's the other way around. Back in Virginia, this was the capital of slave selling before we were the US of A.
on July 16,2013 | 08:42AM
false wrote:
True. There's a lot of chips on shoulders out there. You don't have to look to far.
on July 16,2013 | 08:45AM
whs1966 wrote:
Deedy fired three shots at close range, the first two missing his target and the third hitting it. Since he must have received some training on how to use his gun, he must have been intoxicated. Good thing his stray bullets didn't hit anyone else. However, Mokebla is correct in stating that "Honolulu's Finest" should have tested Deeby.
on July 16,2013 | 06:19AM
kiragirl wrote:
Did you read the article? He refused to be tested.
on July 16,2013 | 06:58AM
IMVHOAgain wrote:
Or he didn't intend to hit anyone the first two shots?
on July 16,2013 | 08:30AM
MKN wrote:
@whs1966: Did you think to consider that he missed the first two shots because Elderts was trying to get the gun away from him by grabbing Deedy's arm which had the gun?
on July 16,2013 | 10:36AM
saveparadise wrote:
People don't realize that your opponent can close 7 yards in less than a second. Not even enough time for someone to unholster a gun. The gun could not have possibly been drawn till they were in a struggle or already on the floor. Try this at home gang. Action beats reaction every time. Try it after a few beers and see some interesting results.
on July 16,2013 | 11:43AM
MKN wrote:
@saveparadise: Good points.
on July 16,2013 | 11:59AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
You cannot make that judgement until the location of the strays come out. It's also going to be important to look at how the bullet entered Elderts. I'm wondering if it's damaging to the prosecution because they haven't introduced it yet.
on July 16,2013 | 01:50PM
64hoo wrote:
he did what other law enforcement law officers would do. fire 2 warning shots into the ceiling to stop the attacker but elderts didn't stop there he still rushed deedy and they scuffled now if deedy shot him the third time and they find powder burns on elderts shirt where he got shot then there was a proof of self defense.
on July 17,2013 | 12:20AM
inverse wrote:
The female eyewitness initially told police Elderts was the aggressor and now in trial doesn't remember saying that. HPD testified in court when Deedy was rendering aid to Elderts, the officer let Deedy continue because it looked like he "know what he was doing" He Deedy was so drunk and impaired, how was he able to properly render first aid? My point is the testimony at trial by eye witnesses AND HPD is terribly unreliable and biased and the best source are the original statements made to and by police on the early morning of the shooting.
on July 16,2013 | 06:32AM
8082062424 wrote:
well the video can not change it story can it.
on July 16,2013 | 06:44AM
false wrote:
Interesting. If you drink ONE beer you have alcohol on my breath. Does that make you drunk?
on July 16,2013 | 08:48AM
kiragirl wrote:
No but there are other symptoms of one being intoxicated.
on July 16,2013 | 09:11AM
lee1957 wrote:
Like rendering first aid.
on July 16,2013 | 11:40AM
gobows wrote:
adrenaline kicked in.....
on July 16,2013 | 12:59PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Must have drank a lot, because after scarfing down fries,cokes and burgers, his breath still smelled like liquor.
on July 16,2013 | 10:14AM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: That's pure spectulation since you don't know that he even had a chance to eat his food before the confrontation happened.
on July 16,2013 | 10:37AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Putting a finger on the wound is not capable first aid. After the dirty deed ,Deedy felt obligated to assist. How is HPD bias? Who else would assist in the chaos? Who would want to be near an armed person that just shot a person. Everyone ran away from Deedy.
on July 16,2013 | 10:13AM
Mei mei wrote:
That is a good point INVERSE, funny how point of views or memories change during the course of time... and agree that the most accurate account is the statements given @ the time...
on July 16,2013 | 11:09AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
Perfect scenario for an unfortunate end. A drunk and armed agent coupled with a local with an attitude who had also been drinking. 2 egos out of control. There's no winners in this one.
on July 16,2013 | 06:54AM
allie wrote:
well said..I hope the jury returns a manslaughter verdict. Deedy was totally irresponsible and reckless.
on July 16,2013 | 07:42AM
fandm wrote:
Sounds about right
on July 16,2013 | 08:17AM
gobows wrote:
does the jury even have a CHOICE to choose BETWEEN murder 2 and manslaugher?
on July 16,2013 | 01:00PM
MKN wrote:
I don't know. I hope they do. Deedy should go to jail for something. Assault, disorderly conduct, being publicly intoxicated, something.
on July 16,2013 | 01:17PM
saveparadise wrote:
We agree again MKN, he has to be held accountable in some way. He was smart not to take any alchohol test.
on July 16,2013 | 02:17PM
lokela wrote:
Manslaughter at the least. Don't care who was drunk. Someone died by the gun. We don't have laws here like in Florida where the other yoyo got off without a charge.
on July 16,2013 | 06:59AM
MKN wrote:
@lokela: Unfortunately, the state would be lucky if they can even get Manslaughter to stick because Elderts was clearly going after Deedy's gun in the video. If a person did that to any police officer, the officer would be justified to shoot that person because it would be justifiable self defense. If the state was smart, they would have charged him with just more than Murder 2 and maybe Manslaughter. If they had thrown in charges like assault, disorderly conduct, or some other charges, they might have been able to put him in jail for a few months. From the looks of things, it seems like he is going to be acquitted like Zimmerman was. There was no special law in the Zimmerman case. The self defense law in Florida is the same as the self defense law in all 50 states (including Hawaii).
on July 16,2013 | 10:42AM
hapaguy wrote:
Again, ELDERTS WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF. And, DEEDY NEVER ID"D HIMSELF AS LAW ENFORCEMENT.
on July 16,2013 | 11:07AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: How do you know that he did or did not identify himself as law enforcement? Were you there? Let all the testimony come out before you make statements like that. Besides, even if he wasn't law enforcement, the shooting was justifiable on Deedy's end because Elderts rushed at him and attempted to get the gun from Deedy's hand. That's more than enough justification to shoot someone.
on July 16,2013 | 11:16AM
hapaguy wrote:
The Prosecutors Office in their court filing stated that at no time did Deedy identify himself as a Federal Agent. I am sure they will present witnesses to that effect or they wouldn't have stipulated that in court documents. So let me ask you again since you never answered me before: So I can punch you in the face, then when you defend yourself I can pull a gun on you and claim self defense?
on July 16,2013 | 11:31AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Of course the prosecution is going to say that. They want to win the case. LOL! Now to answer your question, it depends on the situation. If you punch me in the face, I retaliate and I somehow get into a position where I have the advantage and I am beating the junk out of you and you shoot me, that would be self defense because your life is in danger. Now if you punch me, then I punch you back, and then you have the advantage and are totally beating the junk out of me and you pull out the gun and shoot me, that's manslaughter or murder. Like I said, it doesn't matter who starts the fight. It comes down to the circumstance. In this circumstance, Deedy was justified because he was losing and it's possible that Elderts would have beaten him to death if Deedy had not defended himself.
on July 16,2013 | 12:12PM
hapaguy wrote:
Obviously you have no clue as to how a trial works. The Prosecution cannot make wild claims without backing it up with some evidence be it physical or witness testimony because the BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE PROSECUTION. I am sure they will provide witnesses stating that Deedy never ID'd himself. The Defense can claim any wild theory, and has in this case, that is not backed up by evidence, to create doubt in the minds of the jury. I understand your answer to my question and it seems to me that your honest about your opinion no matter how wrong it is...lol I don't think our HPD or our Prosecutors Office or the court would agree that its ok to shoot and kill someone after you started it and the victim of the assault was defending himself and was getting the better of the assailant and that's why its ok for the assailant to shoot and kill the victim and claim self defense....
on July 16,2013 | 12:37PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Both sides can claim any wild theory as long as they have witnesses that will testify in that way in the court of law. Of course it comes down to one person's word against another's. I will bet the defense has witnesses will testify that he did identify himself as a law enforcement officer. Like I said, It doesn't matter if HPD or the Prosecutor's Office agrees with a law or not. The way that the law is written, there is enough justification for it. There was ample time for Elderts to abort the final sequence that led to his death, but he didn't and sadly paid the price. Wonder if the cocaine they found in his system affected his judgement. No sane person would charge a guy with a gun.
on July 16,2013 | 01:03PM
allie wrote:
true..In the Zimmerman trial, the prosecutor failed to prove that the angry Latino Zimmerman had intended to kill the Afro-American. He lacked the evidence. The jury had to acquit based on the evidence.
on July 16,2013 | 03:20PM
lee1957 wrote:
I'm sure the DA would be interested in your eyewitness testimony.
on July 16,2013 | 11:42AM
gobows wrote:
how many SOBER people were in that RESTURANT at that HOUR OF THE NIGHT?
on July 16,2013 | 01:02PM
MKN wrote:
The workers maybe assuming that they weren't drinking during their breaks. LOL!!! Other than that, good luck finding any.
on July 16,2013 | 01:19PM
saveparadise wrote:
MKN, I would have to agree with you. The gun was still in it's holster when Elderts charged. Deedy could easily have been the one taken out in a body bag.
on July 16,2013 | 11:51AM
gobows wrote:
SPECULATION....nobody knows what Elderts would've done......pound'm...sure....kill him??....NOT SO SURE.
on July 16,2013 | 01:03PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
It doesn't matter. When you have a gun on you and you're to the point where you are getting tackled and possibly losing control of the weapon you are authorized to shoot.
on July 16,2013 | 01:56PM
gobows wrote:
yes, doesnt matter now. BUT, cannot say whether or NOT Elderts was going shoot Deedy IF he got AHOLD of the gun. To say he was, is pure speculation.
on July 16,2013 | 02:22PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
It doesn't really matter. Going for the weapon is enough to warrant self defense.
on July 16,2013 | 04:21PM
saveparadise wrote:
In danger of bodily injury to self or loved ones is based on speculative assumption. Would you let someone take your gun and speculate that he may or may not shoot you? Shoot to kill is also speculative. Did Deedy shoot to kill or stop the attack in progress? What do you believe? It's all speculative and hard to prove which is why it will be hard to get a conviction. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of the prosecution.
on July 16,2013 | 02:24PM
awahana wrote:
Nothing good happens when you're out late at night. Especially in a place like Waikiki. Smart thing to do is stay home and let a boulder come crash on your house. Lucky you live Hawaii.
on July 16,2013 | 07:09AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Zimmerman was a cop wannabee. Deedy was a copy in training. On this forum we have too many lawyer wannabees.
on July 16,2013 | 07:12AM
allie wrote:
giggle...
on July 16,2013 | 07:43AM
false wrote:
That's about it. Just like Zimmer case like this are tried in the court of public opinion. Why have a trial? I am sure that he many who comment here would want all the facts to come out if THEY were on trial. I guess that it will always be like that .
on July 16,2013 | 08:51AM
gobows wrote:
its called the ONLINE water cooler.
on July 16,2013 | 01:06PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Deedy wasn't in training.
on July 16,2013 | 01:56PM
soundofreason wrote:
"The prosecution contends Deedy was driven by alcohol and inexperience when he fired three shots from his 9 mm Glock. Two shots hit a wall, and a third to Elderts' chest was fatal." >>> That's terrible. You shouldn't be drinking and then waste taxpayers money by wasting two bullets into walls. Deedy should be billed for those wasted shots and let's call it a day.
on July 16,2013 | 07:13AM
Lanikaula wrote:
Well except for being drunk, Deedy w/probably get off because of the law, STAND YOUR GROUND! Zimmerman got away with it and moreso, HE'S A FEDERAL AGENT! that'll surely get him off....NOT!!!~
on July 16,2013 | 07:30AM
WEATHER wrote:
Lanikaula...Hawaii does not have STAND YOUR GROUND laws that look anything like Florida. But the notion of "reasonable doubt" is in play here just like it was in Florida. If you've ever been in a jury situation and had to make a decision of guilt based on your conviction of NO reasonable doubt, you'll appreciate how tight the evidence and presentation has to be. Just judging by what the witnesses are saying...and also saying they don't remember and changing...and the various interpretations on this BLOG of things said/presented in court one could reasonably come to the conclusion that there IS ALREADY REASONABLE doubt, regardless of the ethnic baggage obvious here. The court's instructions will tell them how to handle the REASONABLE DOUBT.
on July 16,2013 | 08:47AM
false wrote:
The prosecution has not proven he was drunk yet, but the trial is not over yet.
on July 16,2013 | 08:58AM
MKN wrote:
@false: Whether or not he was drunk doesn't matter when it comes to self defense. When Elderts rushed at Deedy the second time even though Deedy motioned for Elderts to stop, you can make a pretty good argument for self defense. Manslaughter might be possible, but that would be a stretch. Any police officer in that same situation would have done the same thing when attacked in the way that Elderts was attacking Deedy.
on July 16,2013 | 10:46AM
hapaguy wrote:
It's not self defense if you start it, you throw the first blow, then when your getting whooped you pull a gun and shoot an unarmed man dead.....
on July 16,2013 | 11:11AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Yes it is in the eyes of the law. Zimmerman started the confrontation with Trayvon Martin and got his ass kicked and shot Trayvon (who was also unarmed) dead in self defense and was acquitted. The self defense law in Florida is the same at the law here in Hawaii. Sad to say that Deedy's going to be acquitted because the situation is pretty much the same. Not saying that I agree with how this situation is going to end up (Deedy should go to jail for something, but the prosecution didn't charge him with anything else), but that's how it will end up.
on July 16,2013 | 11:28AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: That's exactly what happened in the Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin trial. Look who got acquitted for self defense even though Zimmerman initially started the confrontation. Not saying I agree with the verdict, but that's exactly what happened and that's how the law is written. I actually want Deedy to go to jail for something (he was clearly wrong for initiating the confrontation), but based on what I see on the video, that's probably not going to happen.
on July 16,2013 | 11:37AM
hapaguy wrote:
What happened in the Zimmerman trial was a travesty of justice but that's now what happened in the Zimmerman trial. Zimmerman claimed Martin threw the first blow hence the "Stand Your Ground Defense". No one is saying that Elderts threw the first blow. Quite the contrary, everyone agrees that Deedy did.....Let's not start debating Zimmerman trial here please....
on July 16,2013 | 11:45AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: They didn't even use the "Stand Your Ground" defense. They used the normal "Self Defense" statute. Get it straight.
on July 16,2013 | 12:15PM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN I still stand by my statement that this case is different than Zimmerman because Zimmerman claimed Martin struck first. In the Deedy trial, no one is saying that Elderts struck first. Am I wrong?
on July 16,2013 | 12:44PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: I never disputed that Deedy struck first. What is in dispute is the final sequence of events that led to Deedy pulling out the gun and Elderts charging after Deedy during this sequence. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you or I think. The jury will decide in a couple of weeks. I will say that Murder 2 won't stick. Manslaughter is a possibility, but highly unlikely. Too bad because he should be in jail for his actions that led to the shooting. Unfortunately, that's not what the prosecution charged him with. I would have thrown as many charges at him as I could just to get something to stick. Not sure why the prosecutors didn't do this.
on July 16,2013 | 01:07PM
saveparadise wrote:
Even if you are not licensed to carry, the law states that you can defend yourself or your loved ones in danger of physical harm or in defense of property. Still not a good choice to shoot someone but in this case it was a life and death struggle. The gun was present because Deedy is licensed to carry. Fists and a hard floor could have done the job as well.
on July 16,2013 | 12:00PM
saveparadise wrote:
I will add that Deedy was a fool to show the gun from such a close distance unless he was in the process of drawing it or intended to draw it. Once Elderts went on the offense Deedy would have to defend the gun more than any part of his own head or body. This was a life and death struggle. We should all learn from their errors which have ruined lives and ended in tragedy.
on July 16,2013 | 12:59PM
Kuokoa wrote:
" they thought State Department special agent Christopher Deedy was intoxicated." the fact that there was no alcohol test done on Deedy leaves great doubt in my mind as all testimony to his being drunk counts as hearsay in my opinion. Reasonable doubt? Yup. Not guilty!
on July 16,2013 | 07:39AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Kuakoa, r u kailuaraised? Just wondering. The pro Deedy fans are dropping off these blogs like flys since the trial started.
on July 16,2013 | 08:46AM
hawaiikone wrote:
Aren't we fortunate that juries make these decisions and not blogs? I'm sure you'd prefer that as well if you were on trial. I know I would.
on July 16,2013 | 09:18AM
hapaguy wrote:
hawaiikone you usually post comments that have substance and are relevant to the discussion. But your comment above has neither substance or relevance. Are you just upset because NanakuliBoss is correct that the "Deedy fans are dropping off these blogs like flys since the trial started"?
on July 16,2013 | 09:30AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: I am by no means pro Deedy. I don't particularly like arrogant people from the mainland like Deedy either, so race has nothing to do with my position on this case. I just call it like I see it.
on July 16,2013 | 11:07AM
hapaguy wrote:
I don't know what your comment has to do with my comment above to hawaiikone...but ok......
on July 16,2013 | 11:12AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: I assumed that you lumped me in the same category as those guys you mentioned above. If you didn't, my bad. LOL!
on July 16,2013 | 11:38AM
hawaiikone wrote:
hapaguy, what I'm seeing is a growing number of comments convicting Deedy, egged on by SA one liners. I understand that a trial of this nature warrants daily updates, yet inflaming public opinion seems to be the primary result. I have my own suspicions about the attitudes of both these guys during this confrontation, and feel each shares the blame.. The details and nuances of each action, of all the words spoken, are only available to the jurors, which in turn will have to decide Deedy's fate. i can't help but imagine "boss" or any of us on trial in the deep south for killing a white man, and the possible public sentiment declaring us guilty. To me, Deedy deserves some form of punishment, perhaps even prison time, but that's simply another uninformed opinion.
on July 16,2013 | 01:34PM
hapaguy wrote:
Fair enough except for that statement comparing us to the deep south. That's just insulting. But I still don't understand and you haven't explained why you chose to attack (subtly through sarcasm) NanakuliBoss's statement that the Deedy supporters are "dropping off these blogs like flys since the trial started" the point being that as evidence (the video) and witness testimony seem to contradict the defenses version of events, the Deedy supporters have waned in their comments.....It's not like NanakuliBoss said "I've heard enough! Deedy is guilty!"
on July 16,2013 | 01:50PM
hawaiikone wrote:
Zimmerman/Martin speaks directly to the intent of my response to "boss". As a juror has explained already, there was simply nothing in the law that condemned Zimmerman, even though his actions surely seemed to warrant punishment of some kind. Popular, or at least vocal voices, similar to what we're experiencing here, called for Zimmerman's guilt. If "blogs" made the call Zimmerman would have been convicted and sentenced already. Your having felt insulted by my referral to the deep south is unfortunate, as it was intended to reinforce the importance of us waiting for the jury's verdict and the subsequent explanation. NB's comment pointing out the waning support for Deedy seems true enough, yet emphasizes again that same consideration. And as I mentioned, I'm personally grateful for that process.
on July 16,2013 | 03:21PM
false wrote:
Just based on some of these blogger statements I'd be afraid to be tried by jury knowing people don't wait to hear all the facts.
on July 16,2013 | 11:18AM
bodysurf_ah wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking the same exact thing, hmmm?
on July 16,2013 | 10:36AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
The horrors of someone not agreeing with you.
on July 16,2013 | 01:59PM
hapaguy wrote:
Deedy is not being charged with drunkenness. He is charged with 2nd Degree Murder and also using a firearm in the commission of a felony. It doesn't matter if he's drunk or sober for those charges.....
on July 16,2013 | 09:04AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Exactly! That's what I have been saying from the beginning. It doesn't matter if either party was drunk or not. When Elderts rushed Deedy the second time, that action made Deedy's shooting of Elderts justifiable under the rules of self defense. Glad you finally agree with my viewpoint. I honestly think Deedy should go to jail for assault and disorderly conduct because of him kicking Elderts and starting the fight, but that's the prosecution's fault for not charging him with those offenses.
on July 16,2013 | 10:53AM
hapaguy wrote:
Elderts did not rush Deedy at all!. If you watch the video closely, frame by frame like I did, you can see that after Deedy kicked Elderts, then Deedy's friend, Adam Gutowski, came over and assaulted Edlerts. That's when Elderts friend Medeiros jumps in to help Elderts because at that point it was two against one: Deedy & Gutowski against Elderts. Medeiros and Gutowski end up out the side door and Elderts pushes Deedy down and turns around to help Medeiros. Then Deedy gets up and starts toward Elderts at which time Elderts turns to DEFEND HIMSELF AGAIN. Elderts had his hands down and Deedy was putting he left handon on him. They struggled and that's when Deedy pulled his gun and shot Elderts. Get it straight!
on July 16,2013 | 11:17AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: If that's the case, then why was Deedy backing up and Elderts moving forward when they were struggling for the gun? Looks like Elderts rushed Deedy to me during that part of the exchange and attempted to take his gun. Not sure why you left out the who was advancing on who part when they were struggling for the gun. You make it sound one sided when the video shows it clearly wasn't. LOL! Lots of fault on both sides.
on July 16,2013 | 11:44AM
hapaguy wrote:
Again, you only want to take a snippet and try to twist that into self defense. If you take the WHOLE sequence of events into consideration, Elderts had his back to Deedy when Deedy was advancing on Elderts. Elderts turned around to defend himself since Deedy had struck him once before. If some guy had struck me previously and then was sneaking up on my from behind, I would turn and defend myself also!
on July 16,2013 | 11:57AM
saveparadise wrote:
I clearly saw a still frame of Deedy with his left hand out to hold back the advancing Elderts and his right hand on a holstered gun before the next still of him on the floor with Elderts standing over him. Beware any media attempt to cloud the issues!
on July 16,2013 | 12:16PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: That's all the snippet that's required for self defense because at that point, Elderts was the aggressor and it looked like he was going after what appeared to be a gun in Deedy's right hand right before they both fell to the floor out of camera view.
on July 16,2013 | 12:34PM
Kuokoa wrote:
Lesson learned -- at least for me -- someone pulls a gun on you and IDs themselves as law enforcement, back off and shut up. I would have called 911 rather than challenge Deedy.
on July 16,2013 | 07:43AM
WEATHER wrote:
Kuokoa....ditto...and stay off of illegal mind-altering drugs.
on July 16,2013 | 08:49AM
hapaguy wrote:
The Prosecution contends that Deedy never ID'd himself as a federal agent and I suspect they will have witnesses the will provide testimony to that effect.
on July 16,2013 | 09:05AM
Usagi336 wrote:
That's the biggest thing to me. If Deedy never ID'd himself as a federal agent, Kollin had every right to defend himself by trying to the gun away from him.
on July 16,2013 | 10:13AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
And I'm sure the defense will have someone who says he did. The prosecution has already provided witnesses that don't remember the issues or say something different from their original statement.
on July 16,2013 | 03:35PM
Mypualani wrote:
Yeah Kekoa especially when said person is drunk and asking you if you wanna get shot. I get your point.
on July 16,2013 | 01:51PM
Slow wrote:
Will some one who knows what they are talking about (like an attorney) please help me understand something. Why all the focus on whether either man was intoxicated? Legally, does it make a difference? Is a bank robber more or less guilty if he was drunk?
on July 16,2013 | 08:46AM
gobows wrote:
good question.....a bank robber can claim he's innocent of robbery, due to "intoxication"........"the beer made me do it".....
on July 16,2013 | 09:31AM
WarriorMojo wrote:
I answered this on yesterday's blog.
on July 16,2013 | 09:56AM
DA_HANDSOME_CHINAMAN wrote:
The prosecution contends Deedy was driven by alcohol and inexperience when he fired three shots from his 9 mm Glock. Two shots hit a wall, and a third to Elderts' chest was fatal. Naki testified that when he arrived at McDonald's, Deedy was rendering aid by putting his fingers on the wound to stop the bleeding. Naki testified he allowed Deedy to continue rendering aid. "The defendant appeared to know what he was doing," the officer said. DIDN'T OFFICER (NAKI) SAID DEEDY WAS DRUNK? AND HE LET DEEDY STICK HIS FINGER IN THE WOUND? WOW, WHAT A COP. WILL YOU GUYS TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT DEEDY WAS DRUNK AND HAD A GUN AND WAS LOOKING FOR A LOCAL BOY TO SHOOT. WHY? BECAUSE HIS SO CALLED FRIEND TOLD HIM THAT LOCALS DIDN'T LIKE THEM. NOW DAT'S WHY HE CARRIED HIS GUN....RIGHT. HE TOLD HIS FRIEND NOT TO WORRY BECAUSE HE WILL BE CARRYING HIS GUN. THINK, GUYS, THINK!!!!!
on July 16,2013 | 09:15AM
gobows wrote:
sounds like INTENT to me..........
on July 16,2013 | 10:03AM
false wrote:
those are not the FACTS of the case. sorry
on July 16,2013 | 11:16AM
lee1957 wrote:
I believe the officer's testimony was he smelled alcohol on his breath.
on July 16,2013 | 11:47AM
hapaguy wrote:
It's getting tiresome rebutting these Deedy supporters and other lolos who keep repeating the same fallacious posts: "HPD dropped the ball by not testing Deedy" > FALSE. Deedy refused testing. "Deedy wasn't drunk" > FALSE. Witnessess including HPD testified he was drunk. "Elderts started it" > False. The video clearly shows Elderts was seated when DEEDY APROACHED ELDERTS. Also DEEDY STRUCK THE 1ST BLOW. "Elderts should have backed off after Deedy ID'd himself as law enforcement" >FALSE. According to the prosecution, DEEDY NEVER ID'D HIMSELF AS A FED. AGENT. And on and on......
on July 16,2013 | 09:24AM
gobows wrote:
sounds like GUILTY to me.........
on July 16,2013 | 10:04AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy and gobows: The problem with both of your statements is that you're only taking statements from the prosecution's side as facts. That's why there's two sides to every story and plus the video doesn't lie. That is the equalizer in all of this. If there was no video, the prosecution would probably have enough evidence to convict. Unfortunately, the fatal part of the exchange (when Elderts rushed at Deedy and attempted to disarm Deedy) doesn't lie. Deedy will probably be acquitted because his shooting of Elderts in that situation was justified. Deedy really should go to jail for assault and disorderly conduct or something along those lines at the very least, but the prosecution didn't charge him with any of those offenses (which are clearly on the video), so that's the prosecution's fault.
on July 16,2013 | 11:03AM
gobows wrote:
True....will have to wait for the Defense......
on July 16,2013 | 11:19AM
hapaguy wrote:
So far the Prosecution's version of events more closely resembles what's on the video. Definitely not the lying defense attorney's version. And you and other Deedy supporters can't just take a snippet of the whole exchange and call it self defense. The video clearly show Deedy confronted Elderts who was sitting down. Deedy struck the first blow, and Deedy was the aggressor the whole time.
on July 16,2013 | 11:21AM
MKN wrote:
If Deedy was the aggressor the whole time, why did Elderts knock down Deedy and then go and help his friend attack the other guy? Then go back towards Deedy and keep advancing at him until they both fell to the floor outside of camera view? I don't think you're being very objective.
on July 16,2013 | 11:49AM
hapaguy wrote:
He wasn't "attacking" the other guy. Deedy had already struck the first blow, then Gutowski attacked Elderts. It was two against one! That's why Medeiros jumped in to help Elderts. After Elderts dispatched Deedy, he went to help defend his friend. How hard is that for you to understand?
on July 16,2013 | 12:04PM
MKN wrote:
You just said he went to help defend his friend. How do you help defend your friend? In this case, it was attacking Gutowski and probably pushing him out the door. Then at that point, Elderts went to engage Deedy again. You're not making much sense dude. LOL!
on July 16,2013 | 12:42PM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN Let me ask you this and let's see if you can make an intellectually honest reply. If Medeiros was attacking Gutowski, why can Gutowski's girlfriend Jessica West be seen in the video wrestling Gutowski to get him to stop?
on July 16,2013 | 12:51PM
WarriorMojo wrote:
So now two independent witnesses plus the HPD officer have testified that Deedy appeared intoxicated. That's VERY bad news for him. Doesn't matter if he was legally intoxicated. He was under the influence and that would have affected his judgment. NOT good for his defense. The right of self-defense doesn't necessarily mean you can use deadly force.
on July 16,2013 | 10:03AM
MKN wrote:
@WarriorMojo: Deadly force is justified if the attacker is going after your gun.
on July 16,2013 | 11:03AM
hapaguy wrote:
No it's not if Deedy is the attacker and Elderts was just defending himself which the video clearly shows......
on July 16,2013 | 11:22AM
MKN wrote:
*sigh* I keep explaining this to you, but you get one hard head, so really I say we both agree to disagree on what happened based on the video. You seem so intent on making the "He started it first" argument to justify Elderts attacking Deedy during their final exchange when Elderts tackled Deedy to the floor while going after his gun. Grow up brah! This isn't small kid time kine stuff. This is real life and Elderts screwed up when he went after an armed man.
on July 16,2013 | 11:54AM
hapaguy wrote:
You keep saying the same thing: It's irrelevant who started it. If that's the case, answer this question: If I punch you in the face and you defend yourself and at that point you are getting the better of me so I pull a gun on you and shoot you dead, are you in the wrong because you defended yourself?
on July 16,2013 | 12:10PM
MKN wrote:
Not saying it was wrong or right, but it does give you justification to shoot in self defense. That's how the law is written. If you don't like it, you should petition to get the law changed. Besides, Elderts had the opportunity to back off once Deedy pulled out his gun, but he didn't, so that's why he was shot.
on July 16,2013 | 12:47PM
hapaguy wrote:
Well I guess that's the crux of your problem: You believe that the assailant (Deedy), can shoot the victim and claim self defense if the victim defends himself and starts to get the better of the assailant.....I don't believe many in our criminal justice system would agree with that!.....lol
on July 16,2013 | 01:00PM
WarriorMojo wrote:
Another thing: did I hear correctly that the officer testified that NO fingerprints were found on the gun or just no prints from Elderts? How could there be no prints from anyone unless someone (Deedy) wiped them? And if Deedy did wipe them, that could say a lot about his post-shooting state of mind.
on July 16,2013 | 10:13AM
WarriorMojo wrote:
Another thing: did I hear correctly that the officer testified that NO fingerprints were found on the gun or just no prints from Elderts? How could there be no prints from anyone unless someone (Deedy) wiped them? And if Deedy did wipe them, that could say a lot about his post-shooting state of mind.
on July 16,2013 | 10:14AM
gobows wrote:
And...wasnt there something about a SPENT shell casing that was STILL IN THE CHAMBER of the gun that DID NOT eject. The thinking is that Elderts HAND prevented it from EJECTING.
on July 16,2013 | 10:33AM
gobows wrote:
This is for the DEFENSE. Stay TUNED.
on July 16,2013 | 11:21AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Be real. If he really wanted to murder Elderts, why would he shoot him, render first aid, and tell the Police Officer everything that happened?
on July 16,2013 | 03:54PM
bodysurf_ah wrote:
Where's Deedy's powder puff boys, Kailua and Grimballz?
on July 16,2013 | 10:34AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
I'm right here. Did you miss me?
on July 16,2013 | 04:23PM
lowtone123 wrote:
Oops, he's done.
on July 16,2013 | 11:26AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: Of course the prosecutor's office is going to say that. They're trying to win a case. To answer your question, It depends on the circumstances and the situation. If you punch me in the face and I attack you back and you're kicking my ass, if you pull a gun and shoot me at this point, that would be manslaughter. If you punch me in the face and I attack you back and I am kicking your ass and pounding you on the ground and you shoot me, it's pretty much self defense. If both of us are fighting and neither side has an advantage in the fight and you suddenly pull out a gun and shoot me, that's manslaughter.
on July 16,2013 | 12:07PM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN I've watched the whole video many times frame by frame and I take the whole video into context. I am not taking snippets of it to make my point like you do. This is basically our debate: ME: Deedy was standing over Elderts who was seated minding his own business. YOU: That's irrelevant. ME: Deedy Struck the first blow. YOU: That's irrelevent. ME: Deedy's friend Gutowski comes over to scuffle with Elderts so it's two against one. YOU: It's irrelevant. ME: Elderts friend Medeiros intercedes to help defend Elderts. YOU: That's irrelevant. ME: Elderts turns to help defend Medeiros and Deedy moves towards Elderts: YOU: That's irrelevant. ME: Elderts turns to defend himself. YOU: That's irrelevant. ME: Elderts defends himself and pushed Deedy back. YOU: Elderts attacked Deedy........C'MON BRAH! GET A GRIP!
on July 16,2013 | 12:23PM
Ripoff wrote:
Deedy's done!
on July 16,2013 | 12:49PM
hanalei395 wrote:
Halawa ...... he's really done.
on July 16,2013 | 03:20PM
wiliki wrote:
Judge Ahn seems to be giving Hart a rough time. She must not like him....
on July 16,2013 | 01:15PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
I think the biggest issue that will clear up Deedy's guilt or innocence will be the location of the rounds that missed as well as the angle of the round that entered Elderts. If the rounds shot were in the ceiling or angled upwards (Deedy fired when being tackled) then it's going to be tough to prove the prosecution's case and Deedy has a strong self defense claim. I don't think there is enough to base a conviction solely on the testimony of witnesses and videos. I'm sure the defense will pull people who say something different. Everyday everyone argues over the same thing.
on July 16,2013 | 04:29PM
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