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Sunday, April 20, 2014         

CHRISTOPHER DEEDY TRIAL


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Defendant showed badge, witness says

A Kailua man became angry and violent before being shot, a woman tells the court

By Ken Kobayashi

POSTED:
LAST UPDATED: 11:15 a.m. HST, Feb 12, 2014


A friend of State Department special agent Christopher Deedy testified Wednesday she saw the agent pull out his wallet before the 2011 fatal shooting in Waikiki and show Kollin Elderts what the defense asserts was Deedy’s law enforcement identification and badge.

Jessica West, 27, girlfriend of Deedy’s college roommate and fraternity brother Adam Gutowski, took the witness stand as the defense opened its case in the 15th day of the agent’s trial on a charge of murdering Elderts early Nov. 5, 2011, at the McDonald’s restaurant on Kuhio Avenue.

West testified Elderts became angrier after Deedy opened his wallet and heard Elderts say, “You think you’re tough because you have a gun.”

She said Elderts moved toward the agent in an aggressive manner, hit her boyfriend, who tried to stop him, and later went past her toward the agent.

She said Elderts knocked Deedy down in a “tackling type of motion, lunging at Chris.”

West said she later heard three shots.

Deedy, 29, who was here to provide security for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference, is accused of firing his weapon without justification in the 2:45 a.m. shooting of the unarmed Elderts.

Elderts, 23, was a Kailua resident.

Deedy’s defense is that he relied on his law enforcement training in trying to defuse an
escalating confrontation that started when Elderts harassed another customer.

Elderts became enraged and Deedy fired three shots to protect himself and Gutowski, the defense contends.

West, who was living with Gutowski in Waikiki at the time and is now a risk analyst in Arizona, supported the defense contention that Deedy drank beer, but wasn’t drunk.

The prosecution contends Deedy was drunk after having visited five Waikiki and Chinatown bars.

She said Deedy did not seem to be under the influence of alcohol and was in a good mood when they went to McDonald’s.

West said she left because she thought they were leaving, but returned to find Deedy standing at the table where Elderts was sitting.

“I saw Chris pull out what looked to be a wallet from his back pocket, flip it open and present it face forward to Kollin,” she told the Circuit Court jury. “It angered him (Elderts).”

She said Elderts stood up and moved toward the agent.

Deedy was focused on Elderts, watching him move forward, West said.

West described Elderts as having a scowl on his face, “puffing himself up” and “making himself big in a challenging manner.”

She added, “I was feeling nervous and scared.”

She said Gutowski tried to stop Elderts by shoving him away from the agent, but that Elderts hit her boyfriend in the left temple.

West said Elderts’ friend Shane Medeiros joined in beating and kicking Gutowski, who was on the floor.

She said she tried to help her boyfriend and tried to push Medeiros away with her left forearm.

West, who stands 5 feet 1 and says she weighed 94 to 97 pounds at the time, denied Medeiros’ testimony that she was punching him.

West said she had tried to calm down both Elderts, who didn’t acknowledge her, and Deedy, who seemed focused on Elderts.

“I don’t think anyone was listening to me,” she testified.

Earlier Wednesday, Theodore Coons, one of the two primary detectives in the case, testified he assumed that police would give Deedy a breath test for alcohol when the agent went through processing at the police station after the shooting.

But Coons said no one from the police station notified him that Deedy refused to take the test, which is routinely administered to felony suspects.

Coons, who was at the shooting scene and interviewing witnesses, said he didn’t call to find out the results of Deedy’s test.

It wasn’t until he returned to the police station nine hours after the shooting that he learned that Deedy did not take the test.

He said it would have taken another three to five hours to process a written search warrant signed by a judge to test Deedy to measure his blood alcohol level.

By that time, 14 hours after the shooting, the results of the test would not have been reliable, he said.

Coons, who retired last year, said the second of three shots fired by the agent was the one that fatally wounded Elderts.

The defense maintains the fatal shot was the third fired by Deedy when Elderts was on top of him on the floor and punching him.

Under cross-examination by Deedy’s attorney Brook Hart, Coons testified he didn’t recall whether he included in his closing police report that the second shot hit Elderts.

The report was filed in February 2012 and did not specify the second shot was the fatal one.

Circuit Judge Karen Ahn denied a defense request to acquit Deedy, opening the way for the defense to present its case by calling West to the stand.






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MalamaKaAina wrote:
Surveillance videos don't lie!
on August 1,2013 | 01:53AM
kelbells34 wrote:
Yeah, but it doesn't tell the whole story...and neither did Jessica West. So, he flashed his badge for a second. Did he say, "I'm Christopher Deedy, Special Agent. Put your arms up and turn around. You are under arrest." NO! He possibly said, "I got a gun. You want to get shot?" West said Elderts got angry after Deedy showed him his wallet, but conveniently left out what Deedy said before Elderts got angry. Also, there are categories for off-duty LEO's assessing situations. It's Critical or Non-Critical. I would categorize verbally joking around or verbal abuse as Non-Critical. Deedy should have called 911 if he was so concerned. Then, keep monitoring the situation. Another thing, if you are carrying your gun...Where is your cuffs or defense spray? Oh, when you shoot to kill people, you don't need your cuffs. But, then Deedy was carrying a knife. Was he going to plant it on Elderts? Too many witnesses. So, Deedy cuts Elderts' shirt to do CPR. Is CPR what you're supposed to administer for a gun shot wound to the chest?
on August 1,2013 | 07:51AM
MKN wrote:
@kelbells34: Good points. However, you do administer CPR if the victim stops breathing, so CPR is justified in that case.
on August 1,2013 | 08:43AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
CPRis not administered with a gaping chest wound. Duh.
on August 1,2013 | 11:41AM
wiliki wrote:
Why not? How else are you going to get air in the lungs?
on August 1,2013 | 11:53AM
niimi wrote:
National and official CPR methods are now chest compressions only.
on August 1,2013 | 04:28PM
Mypualani wrote:
Yeah when your heart stops ! Are you for real
on August 1,2013 | 05:37PM
Mypualani wrote:
Not funny at all.
on August 1,2013 | 05:36PM
aomohoa wrote:
Niimi is correct. Look it up before you name call.
on August 1,2013 | 06:58PM
control wrote:
no but someone could put his hand on the area to try to stop the flow of blood. kelbells, elderts wasn't under arrest and deedy had no authority to arrest elderts. as for categories to assess situations, you are referring to trained officers, we will have to find out from the feds (in a civil trial) how they handle assessments. you are making assumptions that deedy was properly trained to assess and handle situations, something this incident seems to contradict. everything you mentioned may be training for local law enforcement officers but we have no clue what kind of training deedy got.
on August 1,2013 | 12:17PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Actually, you're supposed to plug the wound and give CPR. Are first responders just supposed to let the person die?
on August 1,2013 | 12:37PM
MKN wrote:
@NanakuliBoss: You obviously don't know what you're talking about. You attempt to stop the bleeding and if the person stops breathing and/or his heart stops, you do CPR. If you only try to stop the bleeding and the guy stops breathing and/or his heart stops, he will die anyways because of the lack of oxygen. You might want to stick to rail issues only. LOL!!!
on August 1,2013 | 03:01PM
false wrote:
Prosecution witnesses told their story now defense tell theirs. Jury makes decision. That's how it works. If statements are different from police report statements that could mean problems for either side. Hope that many who blog here never serve on a jury. Need to be impartial until all evidence is put forth. Or at least that's how it suppose to work.
on August 1,2013 | 09:51AM
copperwire9 wrote:
Thanks for your comment.
on August 1,2013 | 10:08AM
Fred01 wrote:
Elderts was a coward local punk bully like all the rest, and deserved what he got!
on August 1,2013 | 10:30AM
dsl wrote:
fred's lookng for a reaction - he's ignorant!!
on August 1,2013 | 11:51AM
allie wrote:
Freed is just teasing you..geesh...
on August 1,2013 | 03:18PM
aomohoa wrote:
You as stupid as Fred. He has never once said he was teasing when you make that ridiculous remark!
on August 1,2013 | 06:59PM
bleedgreen wrote:
Easy for me to have waked away. I don't carry a gun.
on August 1,2013 | 03:16AM
WooWoo wrote:
Hmm... let's do an interesting diversion. Hypothetically, do you think that an off-duty LEO (city, state, federal, doesn't matter) should intervene in a situation where she/he honestly thinks that someone is being harassed by another person? Or should they "mind their own business?" If there was a uniformed cop getting McD's, should they step in if one person is verbally harassing another?
on August 1,2013 | 07:21AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
One thing good police do is calm a situation. They don't want a fight or yelling any more then any one else. They talk to both parties, try to find if a crime has been committed and seek reasonableness. If the solution involves not having to file,a report and do paperwork, so much the better.

I think a uniformed police officer... Or pretty much any other law enforcement officer in the US would have handled that situation differently. For example, an officer who found himself in the uncomfortable position of having a few cocktails while in possession of his service weapon would only involve himself and draw his weapon in the most extreme of circumstances. Drunken banter in a McDonalds at 3 am wouldn't qualify.


on August 1,2013 | 07:55AM
control wrote:
kalaheo, thought you said that his intoxication wasn't a big issue? we all agree that deedy wasn't properly trained to handle this kind of situation. esp to bring out a gun to try to stop an altercation. he tried to stop a fight with threats of shooting someone? no trained officer would use threats of shooting someone to hope to diffuse a situation.
on August 1,2013 | 09:11AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
control wrote: "kalaheo, thought you said that his intoxication wasn't a big issue?"

I know.

I think his drinking helped get him deep into that mess, and it's certainly a symptom of the deplorable judgement he showed that night, but I don't think that it matters if he was drunk when he made his decision to threaten to kill, kick, and shoot Elderts.


on August 1,2013 | 09:27AM
saveparadise wrote:
Kalaheo, you continue to ignore all testimony other than what you want to believe. I would have to agree that Deedy was not informed about how to adjust to the locals here. If Elderts did see the badge why didn't they just go home. They should not have kicked the heck out of Gutowski as well. This is going to be difficult for the jury. Look at how the readers in this forum are divided.
on August 1,2013 | 12:29PM
hapaguy wrote:
"you continue to ignore all testimony other than what you want to believe" I would say that statement more aptly applies to you Deedy supporters. Can you cite one instance where Kalaheo has ignored unbiased witness testimony?
on August 1,2013 | 12:48PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Did Deedy even have a badge? Or was it a laminated card? Regardless, carrying a badge and gun doesn't entitle you to get all liquored up, and start threatening and kicking people.

If Deedy felt that it was so important for him to decide to act as a law enforcement officer that night, it would help everyone understand the situation if he could tell us what law he was enforcing.


on August 1,2013 | 12:59PM
niimi wrote:
I think Kalaheio is completely wrong on this one.
on August 1,2013 | 04:32PM
Mypualani wrote:
I think Kalheo1 is right on this, what law was Deedy enforcing when he came upon Elderts? this is the reason Hart pulled out from the federal hearing, because Deedy would have to get on the stand and answer that specific question, after all didn't Hart say Deedy was immune because he was using his arresting powers as a federal agent? "a mini trial" is what they said. This was not a righteous shoot as his supporters like to say, I think this more than anything else is what upsets me. Tomorrow it's cross, for some reason I find Ms. West credible in her testimony, she was after all drinking like the rest of the witnesses. it's like this you have ten people witnessing the same thing not every testimony will match word for word, depending on when each witness came on the scene and from their prospective, the cashier stated that Deedy had left, I can see how she would think that she was scared and ran behind panicked as Deedy went to his slipper then turned around and came back to Elderts. Maybe Ms. West does not remember like her boyfriend but only certain things.
on August 1,2013 | 07:12PM
wiliki wrote:
Yes... they should-- even if they have had a little to drink themselves. If they don't, and someone gets hurt, then the cop did not do his job. He can claim that he's on a break. He's on duty 24 hours.
on August 1,2013 | 11:59AM
allie wrote:
Agree..that is why say the verdict should be manslaughter. It was stupid to bring a gun along when he was going to drink. In McDonald's, Elderts, a white man, was acting up in the same stupid way local losers do out here. Deedy should have ignored the miscreant and gone about his business. Why confront him? These kind of shouting matches happen all the time. Let the locals knock each other off with their petty differences and lack of IQ. Just walk away and the problem goes away! As for McDonald's: go get some real security as many Waikiki businesses do after hours. Stop trying to save a sdime. geesh...As for madieros, gee thanks for egging on your friend and for letting him die. Great "friend."
on August 1,2013 | 07:53AM
MakikiView wrote:
allie, huh? "Elderts, a white man"? You've seen his photo, right? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e9NyaR12l8Q/TsNgeHr5RaI/AAAAAAAAAv8/m2NsuxVQhH4/s400/elderts.png
on August 1,2013 | 08:06AM
allie wrote:
Madieros and Elderts are white. Portuguese and thus white.
on August 1,2013 | 08:41AM
control wrote:
After in the zimm trial I guess in the black man's world there are 2 races, black and everyone else but here in Hawaii it is broken down to locals and nonlocals (I won't use the . word but that's what I mean). white has nothing to do with Elderts, he was a local and so was medeiros. as far as deedy, his intention was to break up a confrontation (by threatening to shoot? what a.....) so I am not sure if he will be convicted of manslaughter (IMHO). as we hear from more defense witnesses it may appear that elderts was the aggressor and deedy felt threatened enough to shoot him. Still hard to tell as we have to hear all the witnesseses first. Deedy should be convicted of something though, terroristic threatening or something at least, he shouldn't get away scott free with what he did IMHO.
on August 1,2013 | 09:17AM
Fred01 wrote:
True. Locals like Elderts are so stupid! It's because of their upbringing and "culture." Like animals or something. Elderts got what he deserved!
on August 1,2013 | 10:32AM
PTF wrote:
Fred, you keep on repeating Elderts got what he deserved. Did you get beaten up by Elderts in the past?
on August 1,2013 | 10:50AM
control wrote:
sorry, but I was brought up in hawaii, while I know hotheads and even had a hothead friend killed many years ago it is a stereotype and not all locals are like that. many of us even went to public schools. it may be upbringing in the home but other than the young p unks a majority of us in hawaii are not hotheads like that.
on August 1,2013 | 11:37AM
dsl wrote:
fred is ignorant
on August 1,2013 | 11:52AM
Mypualani wrote:
Fred your post says it all about you. pilau and pathetic.
on August 1,2013 | 07:16PM
kelbells34 wrote:
FRED, like I said before...Some White people from the mainland are the most CRAZIEST ones. They cannot accept the fact that they are no longer the "Superior" race. WE ARE ALL EQUAL. If we have "Animal Like" crimes in Hawaii, it's probably a white person. If it's a local, it's probably because of a white person instigated it. Or the local is on drugs, that the white person brought here in the first place. Just kidding, we can take responsibility for our own actions. But, seriously, Did you watch Jeresey Shore? The Real World? There's a brawl in half of the episodes. It's mostly fueled by the intoxicated egos. It's EVERYWHERE you go.
on August 1,2013 | 07:16PM
MKN wrote:
@control: Yup. I still don't know why the prosecution didn't throw every single charge that they could throw at him. At least some of them would have stuck. Now it's like an all or nothing thing.
on August 1,2013 | 10:37AM
control wrote:
can someone ask the SA if they know all the charges on Deedy? I hope more than murder 2 and manslaughter but I was wondering why we don't hear what all the charges are. Even the zimm case guess if I was on trial I would want to know exactly what I was on trial for.
on August 1,2013 | 11:40AM
allie wrote:
Sorry but I am indigenous and a female of color. I view both madeiros and Elderts as white Portuguese and foreigners.
on August 1,2013 | 02:02PM
aomohoa wrote:
You should be sorry for being so ignorant! HON!
on August 1,2013 | 02:46PM
niimi wrote:
But in Hawaii this isn't seen as a "white on white" crime. There's a difference in Hawaii's microculture that make Elderts "local" and not white.
on August 1,2013 | 04:34PM
Jonas wrote:
allie, your problem is that you are determining his race by his ethnic background. No local would consider Elderts white. Nuff said.
on August 1,2013 | 09:23AM
Fred01 wrote:
Yeah, locals are not too smart.
on August 1,2013 | 10:33AM
daniwitz13 wrote:
By the way, are you local yourself? Just asking. Pity.
on August 1,2013 | 10:55AM
JAFO wrote:
IRT Fred01: A local is leading this country!
on August 1,2013 | 11:12AM
control wrote:
yes, that is a generalization and extremely racial and biased.
on August 1,2013 | 11:41AM
dsl wrote:
fred is still ignorant
on August 1,2013 | 11:52AM
allie wrote:
Many will differ with me but I am indigenous and to me both are white foreigners. Unwelcome ones at that.
on August 1,2013 | 02:03PM
aomohoa wrote:
Shut up! No one agrees with you and we have all asked you to stop.
on August 1,2013 | 02:48PM
luvshawaii wrote:
get lost! you absolutely don't know what you are talking about. stop making comments. you are so mainland it's disgusting, like deedy.
on August 1,2013 | 06:59PM
aomohoa wrote:
You are so right Jonas. It is more cultural.
on August 1,2013 | 02:47PM
allie wrote:
Many disagreed with Christ as well hon. Many disagreed with Lincoln.
on August 1,2013 | 03:20PM
aomohoa wrote:
I wish I could comment after your next comment allie. Are YOU comparing yourself to Christ or Lincoln?? You are insane!
on August 1,2013 | 08:33PM
Shh wrote:
I'm serious!! Soooo unnecessary for her to have to pin out who is what race! GIVE UP RACIST!
on August 1,2013 | 09:21AM
Mypualani wrote:
Makikiview this is how all lies gets off, you only making her more...EEWWW! NEVER MIND.
on August 1,2013 | 07:20PM
holokanaka wrote:
besides being an id iot allie you are also arrogant. arrogant in my opinion is the worst trait in a human being.
on August 1,2013 | 01:22PM
allie wrote:
Not arrogant. Just confident.
on August 1,2013 | 02:04PM
aomohoa wrote:
NO< HON you are to ignorant to know the difference between confidence and narcissistic arrogance!!
on August 1,2013 | 02:49PM
allie wrote:
It may sound arrogant but a female has the right to be confident. I am. And Men know it and respect it.
on August 1,2013 | 03:21PM
DAGR81 wrote:
You can say anything you like in an anonymous post...it doesn't make it true.
on August 1,2013 | 03:48PM
luvshawaii wrote:
testicle buster.
on August 1,2013 | 06:59PM
aomohoa wrote:
You are nothing but a joke. YOU are way to ignorant to know it. NO one respects you, they only make fun of you.
on August 1,2013 | 07:03PM
niimi wrote:
Eh, get some local guys who like beef en all dey like do is fight. Dey not going lettum go. Some kind attitude ting.
on August 1,2013 | 04:33PM
Mypualani wrote:
IRT niimi And?
on August 1,2013 | 07:22PM
pcman wrote:
IRT bleedgreen on walk away. Actually, the training I got as a military person in law enforcement and counterintelligence with a weapon is the opposite: if you have a weapon and the other person does not, you with the weapon should walk away. But times change and leadership values change. Back in the day, men did not punch women, boys and men did not swear at women or when women were around, men gave women a seal in a crowded bus, men opened car doors for women, etc. Also, when I took karate, we were taught that karate is a weapon, and it should not be used against people who were not trained similarly.
on August 1,2013 | 08:06AM
wiliki wrote:
Can you use it if attacked, or do you let yourself get beaten up? It should be the latter, if you have to do your job and stop the harassing of the other customer?
on August 1,2013 | 12:04PM
niimi wrote:
You've never encountered the type who don't want you to walk away? Many don't. They want to beef no matter what and will confront you to do so.
on August 1,2013 | 04:30PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Acquit. The prosecution and police left so many holes in their report the trial is turning into a waste of time. Now we have testimony by someone close and paying attention that Deedy identified himself.
on August 1,2013 | 03:32AM
john_zee wrote:
Acquit.
on August 1,2013 | 04:06AM
false wrote:
West can speak English with a convincing use of vocabulary. What does the video show? Does her text match the actual recording? Is she filling in missing events as the defense wants us to believe happened?
on August 1,2013 | 04:50AM
allie wrote:
she is a defense witness hon. Obviously she saw the events differently from prosecution witnesses.
on August 1,2013 | 08:42AM
Shh wrote:
What is hon?
on August 1,2013 | 09:23AM
aomohoa wrote:
It's how allie shows her arrogant rudeness .
on August 1,2013 | 02:51PM
hapaguy wrote:
It's more like condescension....
on August 1,2013 | 07:21PM
niimi wrote:
Honolulu. You know, like how some people address their envelopes, "Hon, HI 96701". Some would read that as, "Hello, Honey!"
on August 1,2013 | 04:36PM
aomohoa wrote:
HaHa, you know that is not what allie means.
on August 1,2013 | 07:04PM
Mypualani wrote:
it is talking to it's self again multiple personalities fordays...
on August 1,2013 | 07:23PM
pgkemp wrote:
a mighty cute one 2
on August 1,2013 | 01:36PM
allie wrote:
thank you
on August 1,2013 | 02:04PM
nodaddynotthebelt wrote:
He's not speaking of you, allie.
on August 1,2013 | 03:01PM
aomohoa wrote:
Dense as usual allie. He's talking about the witness with the cleavage.
on August 1,2013 | 07:06PM
luvshawaii wrote:
looks like a call girl.
on August 1,2013 | 07:00PM
aomohoa wrote:
Some men like trashy.
on August 1,2013 | 08:36PM
RetiredWorking wrote:
john_z, if acquitted, I feel that Deedy still paid a huge price financially, emotionally and career-wise. His life is shot, even if he does not spend a day in prison.
on August 1,2013 | 06:55AM
wiliki wrote:
Didn't he also get a broken nose from Eldert's punch? It wasn't a love tap.
on August 1,2013 | 12:07PM
luvshawaii wrote:
oh please
on August 1,2013 | 07:01PM
nalogirl wrote:
Totally agree with both of you.
on August 1,2013 | 08:24AM
HawaiiCheeseBall wrote:
Pau, acquittal on the way.
on August 1,2013 | 08:26AM
8082062424 wrote:
Thing is i believe i it was the first marine who testified that west and the Bf kept egging Deddy on while he was trying to stop it from getting worst. and he has no ties to Elderts or deddy.
on August 1,2013 | 05:11AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
It will be interesting to see if anyone saw Deedy flash his wallet, and so far no one has claimed to hear Deedy identify himself. Not the US Marines who took an interest, nor Deedy's fratertinity friend from college. In fact, West isn't even testifying that she heard Deedy identify himself. For all we know, the drunken Deedy showed Elderts his hotel room key.

I realize that these reports from the courtroom seem unnessarily brief, but if we a to go by the Star-Advertiser, she all didn't mention the kick the Deedy delivered to Eldert's chest that initiated the fight. Do you think she missed it? That was a pretty important part of the the narrative.

Even if Deedy did flash his badge, a job from a Federal agency dealing with diplomatic security doesn't give you the right to pick a fight, assault, threaten, and shoot a man waiting for his hamburgers.

If Deedy was acting as a law enforcement agent, I'd like to know what law he was enforcing when, after a long night of drinking, he approached the seated Elderts, threatened him, kicked him in the chest and then in the midst of a drinker brawl, drew his gun while Edert's arms were by his side and began shooting when video and expert testimony both show that Elderts was definitely NOT reaching for, lunging at, or wrestling for his gun.


on August 1,2013 | 05:47AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
And you don't know what, if anything, the defense asked on cross examination concerning if they saw Deedy show his badge. If he did show his badge, then he had the right to intervene and tell Elderts and Medeiros to stop. Being off duty does not take away your authority. The charge is murder 2 which is starting to fall apart for the prosecution. Manslaughter may have been a better charge. It's not like Deedy had to yell out "I'm a federal agent", merely identify himself calmly by showing his badge. Unless a person was paying very close attention they would probably miss it. This testimony alone is enough to make a strong case of self defense. The rest of your post is nonsense. The screen shot that the prosecution's own witness, the detective, claims to be the first shot fired at Elderts shows Elderts charging Deedy and swinging a punch right at his face. The second before shows Deedy holding his hand on his gun with his hand out trying to get Elderts to stop. And let's stop saying E/M were waiting for hamburgers. They were bullying an innocent person. They weren't just sitting there.
on August 1,2013 | 06:00AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "And you don't know what, if anything, the defense asked on cross examination concerning if they saw Deedy show his badge"

Hold on a second! Are you saying that you think that other witnesses saw or heard Deedy identify himself as a Special Agent with the State Dept and no one covering the trial thought to mention it?!

Here's something for you to chew on. I've reviewed ALL media outlets covering this trial and tried to know as much about this trial as I can without being their. I don't know if you've noticed, but "Did you hear Deedy identify himself as a law enforcement agent that night" is a question that the Defense DIDN'T seem too interested of asking on cross examination of eye witnesses.

And Elderts WAS just sitting there. The person who he was supposedly bullying was just sitting there too, and later testified that he didn't feel threatened. I assume if he, he would have gotten up and left. The bully that night was the man who confronted, threatened, assaulted, and killed Elderts.

If Elderts was punching Deedy, I guess he wasn't wrestling for the gun like Deedy and his defense claim is the reason Deedy opened fire that night.

If instead of "standing his ground," Deedy had left his gun in his pocket, walked out the door behind his friends, and called HPD to report the "bullying" then this tragedy would have been avoided. But there were about 20 things things that Deedy could have done differently that night, starting with getting a good nights sleep so he was ready to perform the job he was there to do.


on August 1,2013 | 06:35AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Nonsense. Unless you were sitting in the trial room, you have no idea what the jury sees. If he showed his badge, which this testimony alludes to, then his case grows stronger. If the defense can introduce contradictions to when the detective claims the shot was fired (which I think they will) then Deedy will walk.
on August 1,2013 | 06:42AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I'd like to hear more about these the cashier and US Marines who you think may have testifies that hey heard Deedy identify himself but no media outlet bothered to report. We do know that Deedy's college friend did NOT hear or see Deedy identify himself to Elderts.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/specialprojects/court/christopher-deedy/week3/20130726__Agent_did_not_identify_himself_witness_testifies_.html?id=217076371

And for the millionth time: Deedy claims he opened fire in the crowded McDonalds and killed Elderts because Elderts was wrestling for control of his gun, yet witnesses and expert testimony both say that wasn't the case. Even the screen capture you posted yesterday prove that wasn't the case. http://imgur.com/imwcu90 Unless you and the defense have a alternate explanation why both cashiers are cringing and one is moving to cover her ears. Do you?


on August 1,2013 | 07:02AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
The prosecution will call witnesses that will support their case. Why would they call someone that would hurt it? Would you expect them to call a witness agreeing with the defense? Deedy's defense claims self defense and that Elderts was going for the gun. The video itself proves Elderts was coming towards Deedy. That alone is a valid claim of self defense.
on August 1,2013 | 07:10AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: The prosecution will call witnesses that will support their case. Why would they call someone that would hurt it? Would you expect them to call a witness agreeing with the defense? Deedy's defense claims self defense and that Elderts was going for the gun. The video itself proves Elderts was coming towards Deedy. That alone is a valid claim of self defense.

The prosecution called Deedy's friend and fraternity brother. He testified that he neither saw nor heard Deedy identify himself as law enforcement.

And the "He's coming right at us!" defense was famously used to comical effect on "South Park" where Uncle Ned and Jimbo claimed they could kill anything if they yelled "He's coming right at us!" first.

All along, Deedy's defense claimed he opened fire because Elderts was wrestling for his gun. We now have irrefutable evidence that was NOT the case, and you think they should go with the "Uncle Ned and Jimbo" defense instead?! Things do not look good for Deedy.


on August 1,2013 | 07:47AM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: Actually, Deedy's college friend probably didn't see or hear the initial exchange because he was pretty drunk. He stated that he was pretty drunk during the trial. Still waiting for all of the witnesses to testify before I decide if Deedy's innocent or guilty. I am still wondering if Manslaughter is an option for the jury or not.
on August 1,2013 | 08:51AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@kalaheo, how exactly do you know what the defense is going to claim if they have only introduced one witness and had opening statements? You cannot tell what direction they're going until they rest.
on August 1,2013 | 09:08AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
If Elderts pulled a gun on Perrine, Deedy has all the right to shoot. All LEO sees that as an immediate threat of life. What you see on the video is a drunk armed man walking over to a waiting customer ,"to put him his place". What training did Deedy have on subduing an American? Other training on local laws concerning Harassment,Disorderly,etc.etc? Deedy made a big mistake. Even if he walks he pays. It might be better for him to pay the Elderts lawsuit for the rest of his life then the taxpayers paying for his cell for 20 years.
on August 1,2013 | 10:44AM
false wrote:
If .... If........ Hindsight is 20/20. Let's hear all the evidence.
on August 1,2013 | 09:58AM
control wrote:
true, I don't think the prosecution had their turn with her yet.
on August 1,2013 | 11:42AM
niimi wrote:
From the way I've been following this Elderts was equally if not more the boorish, bully. He was looking for a fight and could not calm himself to back down. Elderts showed zero restraint. I believe Elderts fully instigated the incident and brought the situation upon himself. Deedy should be acquitted completely.
on August 1,2013 | 04:41PM
hapaguy wrote:
Many of the Deedy supporters have made similar statements: Elderts was a "hothead", had "self control problems", had "temper problems", and one even said Elderts was a "drugged out zombie" that was as "mad as a hornets nest". I don't think the evidence or the video shows proof of that. Let me ask you a couple of questions and lets see if you can answer them because none of the Deedy supporters has been able to: If Elderts was all those things, "could not calm himself down" and showed "zero restraint" why didn't he punch out Perrine for giving him stink eye? Why didn't he punch out Deedy right away? Why didn't he go all out "fists flying" in retaliation after Deedy kicked him? After he knocked Deedy down Elderts can be seen turning to help Medeiros. Why didn't he continue to pummel Deedy after he knocked Deedy to the ground and Deedy was in a defenseless position on his back?
on August 1,2013 | 07:31PM
allie wrote:
In these confused events, everybody sees their own piece of the elephant. Don't expect stories and perceptions to agree.
on August 1,2013 | 07:47AM
allie wrote:
agree...he was NOT a law enforcement officer at all. He was a poorly trained, immature, joke of a security agent. It was a disgrace for him to have been sent here even if it was a nothing conference.
on August 1,2013 | 08:43AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
He was very much an Officer despite everyone wanting to believe otherwise.
on August 1,2013 | 12:41PM
50skane wrote:
I believe the unbiased witnesses...West is as biased as can be..
on August 1,2013 | 07:17AM
dsl wrote:
yup
on August 1,2013 | 08:03AM
HawaiiCheeseBall wrote:
So does that mean you also do not believe anything that Shane Medeiros said either?
on August 1,2013 | 08:28AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Or the HPD officer who posted that Deedy is guilty on facebook...
on August 1,2013 | 09:06AM
Wahiawamauka wrote:
Engage in and help escalate an argument after a night of drinking while carrying a gun. Shoots Eldert after realizing he is getting the worst of it. Case closed. Common sense.
on August 1,2013 | 11:27AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Sure Mederios might be bias. So let's get rid of the two Deedy friends and one Eldert friend and go with the unbiased testimony and video. That would be freat
on August 1,2013 | 10:47AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
West testified that she saw Deedy pull out his wallet and open it. The defense lawyer said he showed Elderts his badge. Let's hear West say she saw his badge, proper identification and that Deedy announced his authority, and name. Other then that, I saw 20people on that video flipping wallets open to pay for burgers. Go ahead Futa, ask West those questions. Also ask Westt to produce the names of her friends that may have consumed drinks at the last bar.
on August 1,2013 | 10:36AM
Mypualani wrote:
The question was asked if she saw a badge, she said no.
on August 1,2013 | 07:28PM
wiliki wrote:
True... acquit. It isn't a crime to do your job.
on August 1,2013 | 12:05PM
Mypualani wrote:
IRT wiliki No it's not a crime to do your job, but it is a crime to terrorize/ threaten someone, it is a crime to assault someone, and it is a crime to take someone's life. In the state of Hawaii to defend yourself there needs to be an equal tit for tat so to speak. Deedy kicked , Deedy got slapped in the face and fell down, now Deedy pulls out his concealed gun and shoots the gun, missing Elderts, shoots again and again, I don't know what shot hit Elderts but I believe coons. in his assessment it makes more sense and he has video to back it up. And the testimony from two unbiased witnesses.
on August 1,2013 | 07:35PM
saveparadise wrote:
Kailua, Manslaughter with light sentence and early paroll. This would leave the door wide open for wrongful death lawsuit. Any ambulance chasers available??
on August 1,2013 | 12:32PM
Mypualani wrote:
no matter what, he is being sued along with his agency, civil is not like criminal at all. the preponderance of the evidence is much lower.
on August 1,2013 | 07:39PM
kelbells34 wrote:
Kailuaraised...Jessica West was close and paying attention? Deedy's bar receipt had 9 shots and some beers...That was at ONE bar. The LAST bar before McDonald's. Gutowski stated Deedy drank at 5 bars. Gutowski witnessed Deedy ordering a beer at each bar. Did West and Deedy split the 9 shots? She is saying that Deedy drank BEER and was not drunk. So, is that statement coming from someone who drank those 9 shots? Who drank the damn shots? Anyways, I agree with you that the HPD left holes. The BIGGEST err is that the laws are not clear! Agents can carry while drinking, but cannot be "intoxicated". Make a freakin level of intoxication. Don't make the witnesses determine the level of the shooters intoxication. Even if there was a breathalyzer or toxicology screening, what is too "intoxicated" to carry a gun? There are TOO MANY occurrences of off-duty officers who drink, carry, and do questionable things. Make it easy for them and make it illegal to drink (even one beer) and carry. Maybe, they'll give up drinking if they love their gun so much.
on August 1,2013 | 08:52PM
Mythman wrote:
Defense presents the actual facts - self defense. Side comments: say Officer Coons had been involved in an identical situation, would he be on trial for murder? The prosecutor is pandering to a bias against "outsiders" who come to our town and "cause trouble". Coons is white but protected by the Brotherhood - if an office of the Japanese persuasion was in an identical situation, just saying hypothetical, he would not be on trial for murder.
on August 1,2013 | 04:24AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
If a HPD Officer did it there wouldn't be any trial or charges. This trial is pandering to the public who cried foul that a "H_____" came to Hawaii and shot someone (in their eyes). How dare an outsider hurt a beloved local. The Officers can't even get their story straight and the prosecution's own witnesses have all said something different.
on August 1,2013 | 04:35AM
false wrote:
If the characters were reversed, Deedy was the dead patron and Elderts, the local agent, then what would be the results. Elderts on trial would have lost. Locals don't count. We know that.
on August 1,2013 | 04:52AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Yah right. No one would blink an eye at an overly aggressive tourist who's drunk and high on drugs fighting a local agent or HPD.
on August 1,2013 | 04:55AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
KR how about an overly aggressive tourist who's drunk and armed?
on August 1,2013 | 10:52AM
Mypualani wrote:
Nah NanakuliBoss that wouldn't fly with these H......, because we all know that Deedy is too smart of guy to be guilty of being really stupid in his decision making skills. Besides he's a Federal Security Agent. and Elderts was nothing but a moke trouble maker and after all he didn't mater or even deserve to live, going by some of these post. (sarcasm here)
on August 1,2013 | 07:49PM
MKN wrote:
@false: Given the same exact situation, the result would probably be the same. Of course we don't know the result of this case yet, so let's see how the jury rules.
on August 1,2013 | 08:54AM
Mypualani wrote:
Well we do know that Kraised would be the first one on here screaming racial bias.
on August 1,2013 | 07:43PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "If a HPD Officer did it there wouldn't be any trial or charges. This trial is pandering to the public who cried foul that a "H_____" came to Hawaii and shot someone (in their eyes). How dare an outsider hurt a beloved local. The Officers can't even get their story straight and the prosecution's own witnesses have all said something different."

Do you have any examples of local police carrying concealed weapons while bar hopping, and the after long night of drinking, picking a fight in a crowded McDonalds, assaulting, threatening and then shooting an unarmed man who 30 seconds before was sitting waiting for his hamburgers?

And the only discrepancy among the prosecution's witnesses was the cashier who believed that Deedy's first shot hit Elderts, not the second. Since the bullet from that first shot was found in the wall at the other side of the crowded McDonald's restaurant, it is likely that she was was mistaken. However, the important part of her testimony was that Deedy drew his weapon and fired immediately and not, as the defense contends, as Elderts was trying to wrestle Deedy's gun away. The video backs that up too as does other witness testimony. It appears that Deedy's recollection of events is not supported by independent witness testimony or by the video.


on August 1,2013 | 06:15AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Waiting for his hamburgers. You keep saying that. E/M were bullying someone and a federal agent just happened to be there to intervene. You're also forgetting that the prosecution has to prove beyond a resonable doubt which they're not doing a very good job of. The testimonies of Deedy's intoxication do not match (ER doctor vs evidence specialist...). The testimonies of which shot hit Elderts do not match. The prosecutions own witness shows Deedy drawing at the exact same time Elderts is winding up to punch him. The prosecution called witnesses who said themselves Elderts was on top of Deedy and punching him. The prosecution's own case fell apart on them.
on August 1,2013 | 06:23AM
kolohepalu wrote:
No one knows for sure whether Deedy was drunk but it is irrelevant- he was drinking- which renders his judgement and actions suspect- particularly in his capacity as an "agent".
on August 1,2013 | 07:20AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I guess we'll take this these one at a time.

1) Elderts was seated and waiting on his burgers. You can see it on the video. The "bullied" Periinne testified that he wasn't bothered by Elderts. The US Marines saw Deedy as he aggressor. Deedy may not have liked Elderts "attitude," but not liking someone's attitude is how fights get started at 3 am in McDonald's.

2) the prosecution is doing a fine job. They've established via video, eye witness and expert testimony that Deedy approached Elderts, threatened to kill him, delivered an unprovoked and potentially deadly kick to his chest, and drew his service weapon and shot him in the chest. They've proven that he was out drinking and bar hopping before he attacked Elderts. They've established that he was violating State Dept policy regarding going armed while drinking. Most importantly, they've established that Deedy drew his concealed pistol and began firing before Elderts came in contact with him in contradiction to the defenses claim that Deed opened fire in crowded McDonald's because Elderts was struggling for control of the gun.

3) Despite the defenses claim, it doesn't matter which shot hit Elderts, although the massive amount of blood that poured out of Elderts chest wound and on the Deedy suggest it was the second shot that hit him. Deedy started using deadly force at a time when Elderts wasn't "wrestling for control of the gun" as Deedy's defense claims. Being a terrible shot is NOT a defense.

4) Elderts was on top of Deedy, punching him the last seconds of his life. Wouldn't you defend yourself if someone was in the process of murdering you? Once Deedy realized he started something that he wasn't equipped to finish, he should have turned and run, Elderts would still be alive.


on August 1,2013 | 07:24AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Elderts would still be alive if he didn't go around starting trouble.
on August 1,2013 | 07:48AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
And he would still be alive if he didn't have a hankering for burgers at 3am either.

I think we can agree that Elderts would still be alive if he hasn't drawn the attention of Deedy, who mistook a Waikiki McDonald's for A saloon in Dodge City.


on August 1,2013 | 08:03AM
HAJAA1 wrote:
Thank you
on August 1,2013 | 08:18AM
summer43 wrote:
these local thugs cruizing around WKK to look for troubles. If you believe Mederos, you're a fool. He's a thug himself. Check all their back ground, Police records...
on August 1,2013 | 11:08AM
allie wrote:
Elderts was begging for some attention as was Madieros. Deedy should have walked away and ignoired both white men. The actions of Elderts were dreary and boring.
on August 1,2013 | 08:45AM
Shh wrote:
There we go again..."white men" ....terrible. I'm going to have to start ignoring your racism because you are too far gone from changing getting help. Seriously, you should seek help.
on August 1,2013 | 09:30AM
allie wrote:
No hon. They were white that night. Portuguese are white. Check the census categories. They are also foreigners. And not very welcome ones, given their behavior, at that.
on August 1,2013 | 02:06PM
Mypualani wrote:
IRT Shh don't give it any attention, it's like those gremlins that you don't get wet or they multiply. look it already morphed into a fred and one other.
on August 1,2013 | 08:17PM
aomohoa wrote:
Will you go away if we all chip in for a one way ticket?
on August 1,2013 | 02:54PM
allie wrote:
I am compensated so no.
on August 1,2013 | 03:22PM
aomohoa wrote:
So the truth comes out in allies next comment. Allie will never go away because he is paid to comment. He is not a student and not a Mandan. Just a dummy. Couldn't SA do better than this. No wonder it's such a poor newspaper. I wish it had some competition.
on August 1,2013 | 07:09PM
Mypualani wrote:
No I don't think so, The prosecution didn't fall apart, you see nothing can be perfect to the exact in any trial with witness testimony, He will be found guilty of the first part of the charges of committing a felony the prosecution proved that Deedy threatened/terrorized Elderts, Deedy is proven to have kicked Elderts, Assault, Elderts slapped his face. You see when fighting you can only return what you get and Elderts did that, Deedy pulled out a concealed gun and fired shots. those are facts. not conjecture at all. Drunk or no drunk Deedy did a few illegal things while he was trying to help a man, whom by the way didn't feel threatened. The defense laws here in Hawaii are strict, especially when it comes to guns, you can use them in defense when in your home or place of business for self defense if you fear for your life. oh and you cannot go around and pick a fight then shoot and kill someone because suddenly you are afraid. You can't even hunt on this island with a gun. because our Island Oahu is so dense with population a stray bullet could endanger human life.
on August 1,2013 | 08:04PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Kailuaraised said" Do you have any examples of local police carrying a conceal weapon while bar hoping, and after a long night of drinking,picking a fight in a crowded Mcd, assaulting threatening and the shooting an unarmed man who 30 seconds before was sitting and waiting for his hamburgers"? As a matter of fact, I do not know of any HPD doing that. Over all the years, and thousands of bar hopping. That's why if Deedy had even some intervention training, this might have not happen. By the way, it was 120 seconds from contact to shooting.
on August 1,2013 | 10:59AM
john_zee wrote:
you nailed it
on August 1,2013 | 07:36AM
dsl wrote:
Local police would have handled it a less threatening manner. That's the difference.
on August 1,2013 | 08:04AM
HawaiiCheeseBall wrote:
Local police could have very well put Elders in one of their famous choke holds and ended with the same result.
on August 1,2013 | 08:30AM
allie wrote:
Elderts was a common cl,own. I see many in Waikiki. Most are terrified of any real confrontation. Madieros betrayed his friend by egging him on. Deedy should have ignored it all and walked away.
on August 1,2013 | 08:46AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Kailuaraised, get over your racist remarks and baiting.really? It's not about local vs.mainlander. Also if you are raised, you are local. So get over it. I think most posters already know, what you are. But who cares?
on August 1,2013 | 10:51AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
What are you talking about? It's not about local vs mainlander? Really, are you blind and deaf or just really naive?
on August 1,2013 | 12:44PM
Mypualani wrote:
when was this? what are your sources for this ridiculous fantasy that you are writing.
on August 1,2013 | 07:42PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Mythman wrote: "Defense presents the actual facts - self defense. Side comments: say Officer Coons had been involved in an identical situation, would he be on trial for murder?"

I'd like to point out that DETECTIVE Coons, after a long career with HPD, never put himself in a situation where he carried a concealed pistol while bar hopping, and then after a long night of drinking, picked a fight in McDonalds at 3am, threatened, kicked and shot an unarmed man.

Yet Special Agent Deedy, with only two years as a agent with the State Dept put himself in that exact situation.

If you have examples of HPD officers, other locally based Federàl agents like our FBI agents, or local stationed military police engaging in such irresponsible behavior and getting a pass on it, I'd sure like to hear about it. Do you?


on August 1,2013 | 06:00AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
How do you know he never went to a bar armed? Are you him? Do you know him personally? Would you like some examples of HPD corruption because there are plenty.
on August 1,2013 | 06:25AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
You are being silly now. If you have evidence to suggest that Detective Coons or any other HPD officer went out bar hopping and drinking while carrying concealed, picked a fight, threatened to kill the man, assaulted him with a potentially deadly blow and then shot them dead, I would like to hear about it.

I don't know if any HPD officer has ever gone out drinking while armed. I do know that if they ever did, they didn't escalate it into the incredible and tragic mess that Deedy did.


on August 1,2013 | 07:30AM
honopic wrote:
What does "HPD corruption" have to do with this case? Kalaheo1 challenged you to provide examples of HPD, federal agents or MP's carrying guns while bar-hopping and you obviously can't cite even one instance. You obviously made up your mind before all the facts are presented. Lucky for us all that you're not on the jury.
on August 1,2013 | 07:45AM
allie wrote:
HPD was not corrupt. Just not especially competent. But that is all too common out here
on August 1,2013 | 08:47AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Kailuaraised calls HPD corrupt but backs up a fed? I'm feeling he got arrested locally.
on August 1,2013 | 11:46AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
I'm alluding to the fact that Kalaheo has no idea what this detective does in his off time. Making claims about his actions is ridiculous.
on August 1,2013 | 12:45PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: You do realize that the arguments you're making are totally one sided right? Your statements sound like Elderts did absolutely nothing wrong when that isn't the case. There was a lot of wrongs committed from both sides (Deedy and Elderts) that resulted in Elderts being shot to death. You and Kailua just need to agree to disagree and let's hear all the evidence and testimony before making a decision.
on August 1,2013 | 09:08AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
MKN wrote: "@Kalaheo1: You do realize that the arguments you're making are totally one sided right? Your statements sound like Elderts did absolutely nothing wrong when that isn't the case. There was a lot of wrongs committed from both sides (Deedy and Elderts) that resulted in Elderts being shot to death. "

Elderts didn't do anything that night to justify what happened to him. By trying to direct attention to his previous arrests for DUI and disorderly conduct and his conversation with Perrine, the defense is moving toward the "ahhh, he was asking for it" defense.

That is offensive when the victim is provocatively dressed victim of sexual assault and it's offensive when the victim is a loud and boisterous victim of a gunshot wound to the chest.

The biggest, nastiest and most dangerous bully in that restaurant that night was the guy who kept feeling for his concealed pistol as he initially approached Elderts, threatened to shoot him, and then kicked him before shooting him in the chest.


on August 1,2013 | 10:15AM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: You stated: "Elderts didn't do anything that night to justify what happened to him. " Let's see. Elderts decided to fight Deedy despite Deedy supposedly stating that he had a gun. I dunno about you, but if a guy tells me he has a gun, I would back off, leave, and call the cops or something. Not go and start fighting the guy that might have a gun. That makes no logical sense unless the drugs (Cocaine) that he was on had something to do with his reaction. You also conveniently left out the part how Elderts tackled Deedy and then was about to rush Deedy before Deedy started shooting. Are you related to Elderts or something? You seem a little biased in my opinion. LOL! I wouldn't blame you if you are. I think Deedy should go to jail for something, but unfortunately he was charged with just Murder 2 (not assault or terroristic threatening) and with all of the conflicting testimony from the prosecution's own witnesses, that's going to be hard to prove. I still haven't made up my mind on who's guilty or innocent and for what crime, but if I had to judge now, it would be Manslaughter at best. I don't know if Manslaughter is even an option for the Jury.
on August 1,2013 | 11:05AM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN I think you are misinterpreting Kalaheo when he states ""Elderts didn't do anything that night to justify what happened to him." because I can't believe that you would believe that someone deserves to get shot because "they harassed someone" or "called someone H__le". Also, how is that "Elderts decided to fight Deedy "? It's been pretty well established that Deedy struck the first blow. If someone kicks you don't you have the right to defend yourself? And lastly, you and others on here keep taking a snippet of the encounter to say Elderts rushed Deedy. There was an unbroken sequence of events that lead from the first kick to when Deedy murdered Elderts that whole sequence of events only lasted 34 seconds.
on August 1,2013 | 11:53AM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: You still have a choice to escalate the situation or walk away and call the cops. The kick obviously didn't do any damage or hit any of Elderts' vital areas. Elderts chose to escalate the fight. I'm definitely not saying he deserved to die (because he didn't), but I am saying that there were wrong actions taken by both sides and those wrong actions led to a life being lost. I only pointed out that snippet because Kalaheo1 left that completely off his snippet of events making it seem like Elderts did absolutely nothing wrong that night when that wasn't true. They were both wrong and they both messed up.
on August 1,2013 | 03:13PM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN let me see if I understand what you are trying to say. Let me paraphrase: you are saying that if a guy assaults you, and there is no damage done, you should just walk away because if you defend yourself, you are in the wrong. I believe that is what you are saying. Is that correct?
on August 1,2013 | 04:49PM
pcman wrote:
IRT Mythman on facts. Unfortunately, in Hawaii, even police officers cannot shoot an unarmed person for self defense. For a non-law enforcement person to a weapon on an unarmed person is bad, not good. Even in your own home, use of a weapon against and unarmed person can be bad. That's why people say, if you shoot a person in your own home, don't only kill him but also put a weapon in the dead person's hand. Self defense in Hawaii, seldom applies outside the home unless the other person also has a weapon. And still you could be jailed for illegal use of a gun, murder, manslaughter, terroristic threatening, etc. This is a venue (bleeding heart liberals, anti-gun) that favors the victims, unfortunately. Guilty or not guilty, Deedy will also face civil suit for killing Elderts.
on August 1,2013 | 08:32AM
allie wrote:
Eldert family should use a civil suit against McDonald's for no adequate security and against Deedy. Deedy is finished as a federal agent. He bungled the simplest assignment at a nothing conference in a nothing city.
on August 1,2013 | 08:49AM
Jonas wrote:
McDonalds should not be held liable for this. Why would you recommend the Elderts family to sue? Ideas like this are part of what is wrong with the country.
on August 1,2013 | 09:29AM
allie wrote:
Because they have grounds to sue
on August 1,2013 | 02:07PM
aomohoa wrote:
So now you think everyone should be able to sue also. You love your entitlements don't you?
on August 1,2013 | 02:56PM
allie wrote:
I have earned them.
on August 1,2013 | 03:23PM
DAGR81 wrote:
allie you cannot earn entitlements
on August 1,2013 | 03:54PM
MKN wrote:
@pcman: Actuall, Hawaii laws state that deadly force is only allowed when a person believes it is the only way to prevent death, serious injury, kidnapping, rape or sodomy. Deedy was getting beaten pretty badly by Elderts, so you could make an argument that it was self defense. Of course, if what has been presented is true, Deedy should have called the cops and let them take care of the situation instead of intervening. Yes, he will probably be sued for wrongrul death in a civil suit and the family might win. I doubt that they'll get much money out of Deedy because he will probably be out of a job once this case is over.
on August 1,2013 | 09:27AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
His insurance is covering the civil suit. If he gets an acquittal he probably won't get fired.
on August 1,2013 | 09:41AM
MKN wrote:
There's insurance for this kinda stuff? Interesting! I didn't know that.
on August 1,2013 | 11:06AM
Mypualani wrote:
His Homeowners insurance, a judge on the Mainland ruled that the insurance company who covers Deedy's home has to help pay for his defense in the civil case, and it's not a maybe not with Michael Green.
on August 1,2013 | 08:32PM
Manoa_Fisherman wrote:
All the HPD officers I know do not and did not carry firearms while off duty, nor did they ever carry firearms while going drinking. Deedy's refusal to take an alcohol test is an acknowledgement that he had something to hide and knew as a law enforcement officer that an alcohol tests are worthless if delayed. If Deedy was not drunk, a test would have absolved him of any question whether he was drunk. So obviously, Deedy's refusal to take a test is a clear indication that he was impaired at the time of the shooting.
on August 1,2013 | 08:37AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
You all should get away from this "white" nonsense. Really nothing racist about this crime.
on August 1,2013 | 10:48AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
right...I suppose the whole sequence of events started over a fight of who got the last hamburger and not two drunk guys calling another drunk a H word.
on August 1,2013 | 12:47PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "right...I suppose the whole sequence of events started over a fight of who got the last hamburger and not two drunk guys calling another drunk a H word."

Then a fourth drunk with a gun and HIS sloppy drunk fraternity friend jump in, and kicks and threatens to shoot one of the guys... and then after he has successfully started a fist fight, pulls his gun and kills the guy he threatened and assaulted and claims self defense. The law doesn't work that way.


on August 1,2013 | 02:02PM
allie wrote:
white on white crime at that
on August 1,2013 | 02:08PM
51butterflies wrote:
Do the crime, pay the price, Deedy. Owning up to one's responsibility, for one's intoxication and actions that followed. Why hasn't the Star Advertiser reported the testimony given by Detective Coons concerning the question of "deadly force" surfaced? or did I miss this in the Star Advertiser's reporting? Does the surveillance video show Deedy exposing his ID?
on August 1,2013 | 04:46AM
roxeee wrote:
According to West, Deedy pulled out his wallet and identified himself as a LEO when he approached Eldert's table. OTOH, Gutowski claims he did not witness Deedy identify himself. If a friend goes over to confront a group, I'd be paying attention.
on August 1,2013 | 04:47AM
artmurch wrote:
You may be right. The foolish SWA thinks that he can bring ITOLs to the GPPDO. He had better HAHF if he does.
on August 1,2013 | 05:10AM
nippy68 wrote:
the feds secretly told her to lie........ acquitted by b.s.
on August 1,2013 | 05:55AM
AhiPoke wrote:
I don't know the truth but neither do you. At this point the only person who truly knows id Deedy. What I do know is that it makes little sense for someone, not otherwise directly connected to the shooting, to lie. Lying under oath would expose West to severe penalties. I know I wouldn't lie, even for a friend.
on August 1,2013 | 07:24AM
allie wrote:
agree
on August 1,2013 | 07:47AM
Mypualani wrote:
I don't think Ms. West is lying at all, all the witnesses in this case were in different positions at different times. and are testifying to what they saw heard and smelled, it's up to the jury put the pieces in place and come up with the real picture and of course there will be "instructions from the judge. To find guilty or not guilty.
on August 1,2013 | 08:40PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I don't think the Feds want much to do with Deedy. His unprofessionalism and poor judgement damaged their reputation.
on August 1,2013 | 07:32AM
allie wrote:
agree..he was very poorly trained and very unprofessional. His career is over no matter the verdict
on August 1,2013 | 07:48AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Seriously doubt it if he gets acquitted. It takes a lot to fire a Fed.
on August 1,2013 | 08:14AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "It takes a lot to fire a Fed."

That is sad if true. That sort of dangerous incompetence would get you fired from almost any other job. Why is it so hard to fire a dangerous and incompetent person from federal law enforcement?

Doesn't the State Dept take their own firearm policies seriously?


on August 1,2013 | 10:20AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Have you ever seen someone on any police force get fired? They have unions and protections.
on August 1,2013 | 12:47PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "Have you ever seen someone on any police force get fired? They have unions and protections."

Actually, I have. And for things far less egregious than this unholy mess. Would you like examples?


on August 1,2013 | 02:04PM
hapaguy wrote:
One of my high school classmates got fired from HPD because he tried to run over his wife with the squad car!...He was on duty and went to her house (they were separated) because he suspected her of having an affair and the squabble turned ugly and he tried to run her over!
on August 1,2013 | 04:53PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@kalaheo, were talking about a Federal employee. They're appointed to their position and cannot just be fired. It's very hard.
on August 2,2013 | 04:02AM
allie wrote:
agree...Deedy is done no matter what
on August 1,2013 | 02:08PM
control wrote:
not to mention how much they will end up paying in a civil case. we all know that's next, that deedy was poorly trained by the govt, the thing will be whether the govt will settle with the elderts family out of court or will have a civil case. I think it will be handled out of court as I doubt anyone can say that deedy acted responsibly and the govt's lack of training had a big hand in this incident.
on August 1,2013 | 09:36AM
yhls wrote:
Liar.
on August 1,2013 | 06:11AM
lynnh wrote:
And you know this how???
on August 1,2013 | 07:03PM
yhls wrote:
The jury must listen to the impartial witnesses who knew neither the victim, nor the defendant. They all say it was Deedy who was the aggressor. Nice try, Ms. West. Geez, no integrity.
on August 1,2013 | 06:13AM
hanalei395 wrote:
The FIRST and ONLY "witness" to say that Deedy "identified himself and showed his badge". No doubt, the jury already has this liar in mind and it will backfire.
on August 1,2013 | 06:29AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Why would the prosecution call a witness who would say this? It would destroy their case. Now the defense will present people who will testify that he did. It'll be interesting to hear what the security guard has to say.
on August 1,2013 | 06:35AM
hanalei395 wrote:
West is a "witness" for the DEFENSE. ...... Got it?
on August 1,2013 | 06:50AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Yah, and all of the other witnesses were for the prosecution. Would you expect the prosecution to call someone who said he identified himself? Unlike you, the jury is supposed to hear both sides of the story and make their decision. Not convict her as a liar because the defense called her.
on August 1,2013 | 06:56AM
hanalei395 wrote:
Kailua didn't get it ...... The defense opened its case and CALLED West to the stand, its first witness.
on August 1,2013 | 07:17AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
So?
on August 1,2013 | 07:26AM
hanalei395 wrote:
So you're having a meltdown and you already know that Deedy will be on his way to OCCC or Halawa. (At first, you said the prosecution "called West to the stand". And now .....SO?).
on August 1,2013 | 07:39AM
MKN wrote:
@hanale395: How do you know that West was and will be the only witness to testify that Deedy presented his law enforcement credentials to Elderts? If someone other than West and Deedy state that they saw him present those credentials, then that would refute the prosecutions assertions that he didn't identify himself as a law enforcement officer. Let's wait until everyone testifies and all the evidence comes out first before coming to a conclusion.
on August 1,2013 | 09:49AM
hanalei395 wrote:
I said ...FIRST ...and only "witness" ....etc. ...........Don't worry about it.
on August 1,2013 | 10:18AM
AmbienDaze wrote:
yo prince, all witnesses to this point has been prosecution witnesess, those that support the prosecutions' case.

west is the first of the defense witnesses that will present testimony to support the defenses' case.

< .....................................................got it?
on August 1,2013 | 07:30AM
hanalei395 wrote:
The stalker comes to the aid of Kailua and REPEATS what I just said ... that West is the first witness for the defense.
on August 1,2013 | 07:52AM
hanalei395 wrote:
Besides Kailua, the stalker, Daze, is also having a meltdown.
on August 1,2013 | 07:58AM
hanalei395 wrote:
Or .....is just plain STUPID.
on August 1,2013 | 08:06AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hana, you're not making any sense. Why is it a big deal that they called her?
on August 1,2013 | 08:15AM
hanalei395 wrote:
It' a big deal to YOU. And YOU didn't make any any sense when you said that it was the "prosecution" that CALLED West to the stand. So much a big deal for you for screwing up, you didn't know what to say EXCEPT .....So?
on August 1,2013 | 08:39AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hana, where did I say this? I said "Why would the prosecution call a witness who would say this?" in response to you.
on August 1,2013 | 09:05AM
hanalei395 wrote:
You said that because you THOUGHT they did.
on August 1,2013 | 09:19AM
hanalei395 wrote:
Kailua is now blowing smoke.
on August 1,2013 | 09:22AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hana, is english your second language? Do you know how to read sarcasm? You posted the defense called her in attempt to make a point. I pointed out that it's obvious. Why would the prosecution call someone who would go against their version of the events?
on August 1,2013 | 09:43AM
hanalei395 wrote:
You didn't know that the defense had already opened its case and you THOUGHT the prosecution was STILL presenting its case. And what you call "sarcasm" ....doesn't work.
on August 1,2013 | 10:12AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hana, if you say so.
on August 1,2013 | 10:42AM
hanalei395 wrote:
You say that because you gave up blowing smoke.
on August 1,2013 | 10:54AM
hanalei395 wrote:
In other words .... Kailua gave up b...s...ing with me.
on August 1,2013 | 12:43PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
I don't think it matters if Deedy identified himself as being a member of law enforcement or not.

Unless the law enforcement agency is "Her Majesty's Secret Service" and Deedy was a "double ought spy" having a badge is NOT a license to kill, or assault and threaten to murder.


on August 1,2013 | 07:36AM
MKN wrote:
You're absolutely right that it doesn't matter if he did identify himself as law enforcement or not. Hawaii laws state deadly force is only allowed when a person believes it is the only way to prevent death, serious injury, kidnapping, rape or sodomy.

Check out KITV's investigation into self defense laws
on August 1,2013 | 09:54AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
That was very helpful and adds to the conversation. Thank you very much.
on August 1,2013 | 10:22AM
hapaguy wrote:
Yes good info. That's the premise I and others have been arguing since the beginning. Only thing they didn't cover in detail is that in general when exercising your right to self defense, you are only allowed to use an equivalent amount of force. In other words you can't bring a gun to a fist fight. Also, the statement "In Hawaii, you are not required to safely retreat when you are threatened in your home or workplace." is not entirely correct. That statement is in reference to the "Castle Doctrine (Defense of Habitation Law)" and it's true not only in Hawaii but the rest of the nation as well....
on August 1,2013 | 12:10PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
So you're telling me if you're getting punched to death you can only respond with punches? That's non sense and is not how the law is written.
on August 1,2013 | 12:49PM
hapaguy wrote:
Kraised I know this is hard for you to understand but let me see if I can simplify this for you. If someone punches you in the face (nondeadly force), YOU CANNOT PULL A GUN AND SHOOT THEM. If someone pulls a knife, gun, or bat (deadly force) and comes at you, you can use equivalent deadly force (a gun if you have one) to defend yourself. Equivalent use of force is self defense. That's why Deedy is on trial for Murder 2! He pulled his gun on an unarmed man (non deadly force) and started shooting PRIOR to getting punched! Two unbiased witnesses (Bryd & Salzbrenner) have testified to that...do you understand now?
on August 1,2013 | 01:13PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
@hapa, do you understand that people die from punches?
on August 2,2013 | 04:03AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: @hapa, do you understand that people die from punches?

So when Deedy kicked Elderts, he was delivering a potentially deadly blow and Elderts was justified to fear for his life? Right?


on August 3,2013 | 09:26AM
xxNOTxx wrote:
Everybody is assuming that Deedy was showing him his badge, but West said she didn't know what was in the wallet that Deedy was showing Elderts. Did Deedy even loudly state that he was a peace officer as required prior to using deadly force for the safety of others, as stated by Coons--so far no one seems to testify to that.
on August 1,2013 | 07:18AM
control wrote:
sorry, he took out his wallet to show elderts what? In an altercation people always take out their wallet to show the other guy huh? what manual are you looking at? maybe showing his badge might indicate he is an officer? you are grasping with your comments.
on August 1,2013 | 09:31AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
Again, my argument is how much weight the jury will put on witness testimony for prosecution and defense. Gotta match up testimony with what facts are available and see if it matches. If it doesn't, testimony must be thrown out.
on August 1,2013 | 07:05AM
BigOpu wrote:
Ok, I throw out testimony of any close friend of either party. Of course they are going to support their side. I will believe the people who were there who also has no personal involvement with the parties. So far, no ID from Deedy.
on August 1,2013 | 07:15AM
50skane wrote:
What did anyone really expect her to say..
on August 1,2013 | 07:16AM
HAJAA1 wrote:
Same thing that the friends of the local punk said..
on August 1,2013 | 07:23AM
8082062424 wrote:
He said either party.
on August 1,2013 | 07:56AM
HAJAA1 wrote:
Lesson to all local punks. I grew up with them. Never could understand what their purpose was. Maybe it was to live a short life. Lol
on August 1,2013 | 07:21AM
twitter6 wrote:
Yup - Tattoo, MMA, Defend Hawaii, Pit Bulls, and disrespectful to the kupuna
on August 1,2013 | 08:21AM
Fred01 wrote:
How dare you disrespect the culture!
on August 1,2013 | 10:40AM
lynnh wrote:
It's the punks that are disrespecting their own culture!
on August 1,2013 | 07:04PM
onwardupward wrote:
This comment has been deleted.
on August 1,2013 | 07:28AM
allie wrote:
yikes!
on August 1,2013 | 07:48AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
I assure you everything is carefully planned by Hart. There is no way she had any say in choosing what she would be wearing.
on August 1,2013 | 08:16AM
control wrote:
well for the amount these defense attorney's charge he better take control for the defense.
on August 1,2013 | 09:28AM
LKK56 wrote:
You are right - she was the best looking witness to date.
on August 1,2013 | 08:16AM
livealoha wrote:
My thoughts exactly! Very unbecoming. I noticed that right away.
on August 1,2013 | 08:26AM
Larry01 wrote:
Ha, I was thinking the same thing!
on August 1,2013 | 08:44AM
Mythman wrote:
I like the cleavage, best thing that has happened in the trial so far, can we have more cleavage please?
on August 1,2013 | 09:04AM
Ripoff wrote:
haters gonna hate lol
on August 1,2013 | 10:30AM
aomohoa wrote:
LOL, that's the first thing I noticed in the pic and I am female.
on August 1,2013 | 02:59PM
livinginhawaii wrote:
Hopefully this girlfriend will get a thorough cross examination. Wasn't it just last year that a girlfriend in another case lied about her boyfriend speeding on a jet ski?
on August 1,2013 | 07:49AM
twitter6 wrote:
At least she is friendly to the eye
on August 1,2013 | 08:15AM
Ripoff wrote:
beyond freindly my friend lol
on August 1,2013 | 10:30AM
aomohoa wrote:
Just because she looks like a hooker doesn't mean she is one. LOL
on August 1,2013 | 08:40PM
nalogirl wrote:
Ms. West's account of what happened makes the most sense.
on August 1,2013 | 08:22AM
kainalu wrote:
He said - she said. It's my perspective that Shane's testimony flowed naturally, while this woman's testimony seems rehearsed. What can't be denied by anyone is that Deedy was drinking while armed. That's critical in my view. Whether he was under the influence or not, will now be determined by the jury.
on August 1,2013 | 08:33AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
I agree with you partly but the jury cannot determine whether he was under the influence because Deedy refused an initial test and HPD did not conduct a follow up test.
on August 1,2013 | 09:06AM
kainalu wrote:
I don't know. There are those in our society that believe 1-drink, then you're under the influence.
on August 1,2013 | 10:02AM
summer43 wrote:
I don't know why some of my posts was not posted. I only call Elders and Mederos thugs. Is that too much?
on August 1,2013 | 11:23AM
control wrote:
I don't know, to me medeiros' testimony was not believable, that he was not telling the whole truth and that he was making up things to make it appear that they were the victims. I still think from other testimony that elderts and medeiros were the aggressors, that they started the confrontation with perrine with racial tones and used the staredown to start an incident. west's testimony is the other side of the coin, negating medeiros testimony so we need to hear from other objective witnesses to hear what a person that wasn't involved in the incident has to say for the defense. while intoxication is an issue it will be up the defense to show that deedy felt he had to shoot to defend himself, then some doubt can be cast on a murder 2 or manslaughter conviction IMHO.
on August 1,2013 | 09:25AM
oioman wrote:
2 words..."Reasonable Doubt". I don't like it but it looks like we have an aquittal.
on August 1,2013 | 08:45AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Agreed. This testimony alone is enough to bring reasonable doubt unless she gets caught in a lie by the prosecution.
on August 1,2013 | 09:04AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
She testified that Deedy showed him something inside his wallet. If it was his federal ID badge, those aren't particularly uncommon here and are NOT licenses to threaten to kill, kick or shoot people who are sitting and not breaking laws.
on August 1,2013 | 10:26AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Do you know what reasonable doubt means? Because by the tone of your comments you don't. All it takes is doubt to the prosecution's version of events.
on August 1,2013 | 10:44AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "Do you know what reasonable doubt means? Because by the tone of your comments you don't. All it takes is doubt to the prosecution's version of events."

As it happens, I do know what reasonable doubt means means. It means that to find someone guilty, there is no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty. You seem to be focusing on the "doubt" part and ignoring the "reasonable" part.

So what does that mean for the Deedy trial? It means it will take a lot more than the cashier testifying that the she thought the 1st bullet hit him instead of the 2nd. It means that the defense didn't manage to undermine any of the prosecutions witnesses, and it means that the video record does NOT support Deedy's claim that Elderts grabbed Deedy's his gun hand when Deedy started shooting.

Here is what Deedy's defense attorney told the jury in his opening statement: "Hart told the jury that Elderts attacked Deedy, drove him into the back corner of the restaurant, grabbed Deedy’s gun, mounted him, and started beating him in the face before Deedy fatally shot him."

Even you agree that the video shows Deedy resorting to deadly force and firing his concealed pistol at Elderts well before any of that happened.

The defense has it's work cut out for them, especially if they decide to change their story mid-trial.


on August 1,2013 | 12:13PM
hapaguy wrote:
Well done Kalaheo!
on August 1,2013 | 12:39PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
None of that truly proves murder 2 beyond a reasonable doubt.
on August 1,2013 | 12:52PM
hapaguy wrote:
Maybe. But it does prove one thing: Deedy is a liar......
on August 1,2013 | 01:17PM
Mypualani wrote:
Very well done.
on August 1,2013 | 09:08PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: You're absolutely right if that were the case. Deedy did break several laws that night (Assault, Terroristic Threatening, and Reckless Endangerment). However, it's apparent that Elderts also broke the law as well because he assaulted Deedy's friend and Deedy. Elderts or Deedy could have walked away from this incident at anytime up until the final sequence of events where Elderts tackled Deedy the second time as Deedy shot Elderts. That is the key to whether or not this is Murder 2, Manslaughter or Self Defense. Let's wait until all the evidence and testimony comes out before we make a final judgement.
on August 1,2013 | 11:20AM
hapaguy wrote:
MKN you and others keep saying Medeiros assaulted Gutowski. I gather you are getting that from Gutowski's testimony because the video does not back up that claim. If you watch the video after Deedy kicks Edlerts Gutowski comes over to Elderts and they get into a scuffle. When Gutowski comes over to Elderts they are standing almost directly in front of Perrine's table and you can see Gutowski and Deedy and West all by Elderts. Medeiros is to the left of the video by where Elderts was originally seated. Then you can see Elderts and Gut scuffle and Elderts is backed up all the way to in front of the ATM. I believe that Gut is actually assaulting Elderts because common sense will tell you that if you are assaulting someone you wouldn't be backing up. This is when Medeiros gets involved to help Elderts because at this point its 2 against 1 (Deedy & Gut vs Elderts). Watch the video you will see.....
on August 1,2013 | 12:20PM
hapaguy wrote:
Also a final point on this false claim that "Medeiros was assaulting Gutowski" nonsense: While Gutowski and Medeiros are scuffling, the whole time West can be seen in the video trying to pull on Gutowski. Common sense will tell you that you don't pull on the person that is being assaulted. You pull on the person DOING the assaulting....
on August 1,2013 | 12:25PM
MKN wrote:
@hapaguy: I dunno what video you're seeing, but that's not what I saw. Deedy was tackled to the ground, and then Elderts went to the door where Gutowski and Medeiros were at so at that point how was it 2 (Deedy and Gutowski) vs 1 (Elderts)? Also, I doubt that Elderts could have messed up Gutowski (he looked like someone ran over his face) that quickly (less than three seconds) without Medeiros also punching and kicking Gutowski. The 2 vs 1 was Elderts and Medeiros vs Gutowski when Deedy was on the ground trying to get up. Then when Deedy got back up, Elderts went back to deal with Deedy. At this point, I say we should agree to disagree.
on August 1,2013 | 03:28PM
hapaguy wrote:
What I am describing is previous to what you are describing. Lets use the timeline on the YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_CDhTH_EgE) so we're both on the same page. Let's just start from the first assault (Deedy kicking Elderts) at 27m19s. From 27m21s (after the kick) you can see Gutowski, Deedy, West and Elderts by the side door and Bryd (with the white tshirt black vest and cap) apparently trying to beak them all up. Medeiros is all the way over behind some girl, standing by where Elderts was seated. For the next 10 or 11 seconds they appear to be arguing then at 27m32s you can see West pushing Deedy back and behind them Elderts and Gut are apparently scuffling almost directly in front of Perrines table. Medieros can be seen to the left of Deedy with his hand (or thumbs) in his pockets looking at West and Deedy. At 27m34s you can see Elderts and Gut scuffling almost directly in front of the ATM. Gut has pushed Elderts back from Perrine's table almost all the way back to the ATM. That's why I am saying Gut assaulted Elderts because Elderts is MOVING BACKWARDS. Medeiros is still standing to the left with some woman and Jobe by Elderts original table. Keep in mind that that's two guys now that have assaulted Elderts, first Deedy, and now Gutowski. So it's only natural that Medeiros would help his friend. Its at 27m40s both Medeiros and Deedy join in with the scuffling Elderts and Gut and all hell breaks loose.
on August 1,2013 | 04:12PM
control wrote:
probably during deedy's testimony he will have to bring out his wallet to show he had an actual badge, not just and ID badge but a sheild also. fed officers I would think like hpd or police should have shields with their ID. he took out his wallet to show his badge hoping it will stop the incident, instead (from what west says in her testimony) elderts got more aggresive. still need more witness testimony to hear, but she is just one witness that can put a doubt on the prosecution's case, or at least cast reasonable doubt that could eliminate a murder 2 or manslaughter conviction. this is just one witness for the defense, well have to see what else the defense has to offer.
on August 1,2013 | 11:52AM
hapaguy wrote:
Deedy won't testify...I am sure of that....
on August 1,2013 | 12:21PM
LadyNinja wrote:
Coons huge mistake: assume! In any case or legal proceeding, it is NEVER safe to assume or presume the outcome of any trial. It was Coons duty to make sure that Deedy was tested! This is something that is often overlooked, one must wonder how the evidence will come out to play. Deedy has wonderful attorneys, I wish him the best.
on August 1,2013 | 08:48AM
zelda123 wrote:
Coached Much ?
on August 1,2013 | 08:58AM
tod wrote:
The real story here is that the defense witness is hot! I wonder if she's still dating Deedy's friend after all of this drama....
on August 1,2013 | 09:04AM
kanaka wrote:
I find her udderly believable
on August 1,2013 | 09:16AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
I forgot everything she said because I was totally mesmerized by her ....uh, personality.
on August 1,2013 | 12:51PM
Shh wrote:
If you ask me, Jessica West testimony sounded rehearsed and fabricated.
on August 1,2013 | 09:17AM
xxNOTxx wrote:
I good lawyer will go through rehearsals with every witness before they actually go up to testify in court. It's common practice and known.
on August 1,2013 | 09:37AM
Shh wrote:
Did anyone get to see the so called invisible badge or actually hear Deedy say he was a so called agent?
on August 1,2013 | 09:27AM
cojef wrote:
As an auditor, carried a badge for years, but no gun, while working for the Federal Government many years ago. The badge was used for identification purposes that indicated that I was authorize to examine all records pertinent to the activities being audited or examined. The badge was later replaced by a photgraphic identification as our function changed to internal auditing. From my personal view, a badge tends to embolden the ego into acting aggressively and a combination with a gun more so. Have a feeling that the unwarranted death could have been avoided, if Agent Deedy acted with greater restraint knowing that he carried a weapon. Of course, an inebriated individual cannot control his impulses and bravado under those conditions.
on August 1,2013 | 09:30AM
control wrote:
I don't know, maybe he used the badge to identify himself as a fed, hoping that it will diffuse the sitation? if you were an fed in the middle of an altercation how else would you stop the incident? we all agree that deedy wasn't properly trained to handle situations and acted irresponsibly but elderts and medeiros were the ones who started it all with the racial tones towards perrine. This incident could have been avoided had eldert's and medeiros not start the whole thing. both sides were wrong.
on August 1,2013 | 09:46AM
Peacenik wrote:
Coons the prosecuting witness, said himself, they need to id themselves as police of fed agents. whether it aggravated the situation is moot. he was following protocol. who said WE ALL AGREE.....? Without sound to the video and lapse in between, the situation could be interperted to favor either side or disfavor. Only hapaguy who seem to have ESP can tell everyone what was said, what actually happened in the video time lapse etc. In another post, he asked if KailuaR and I are the same person. Since then I lost all respect for his subjectivity.
on August 1,2013 | 10:33AM
control wrote:
don't forget kalaheo too, lol. yes you are correct, without sound and a streaming video (instead of second by second bites) we cannot see the entire scene develop correctly, we can only deduce from witness testimony what happenned. but it seems that Deedy acted recklessly, threatening to shoot people (again from what prosecution witnesses said). we need to see the whole trial played out but some people already convicted deedy.
on August 1,2013 | 11:58AM
hapaguy wrote:
Ummm let me defend myself here. I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHAT WAS SAID ON THE VIDEO. I have only been repeating the witness testimony.
on August 1,2013 | 12:29PM
mrluke wrote:
Nice dress! How many men are on the jury?
on August 1,2013 | 09:46AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "how exactly do you know what the defense is going to claim if they have only introduced one witness and had opening statements? You cannot tell what direction they're going until they rest."

I know what the defense is going to claim because of their Federal Court Pleading they filed and swore was a factual account of what happened. If they deviate from that story, it will be pretty fishy.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/newspremium/201310801_Defendant_showed_badge_witness_says.html?id=217895811

In it, Deedy and defense attorney swear that Deedy fired his gun while Elderts was using his left hand to grab Deedy's right hand and gun hand. Unfortunately for them, video and witness testimony don't support that sequence of events, and Elderts wasn't even touching Deedy when Deedy began firing. Would you like to the photo you posted again? http://imgur.com/imwcu90

More to the point, Deedy has already sworn that this is how events unfolded and is the basis of his defense. Perhaps you would care to read Deedy's sworn account of the events leading up to him taking his first shot and compare them to the video and eyewitness testimony. http://www.deedysupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Brook-Hart-memo-26-34.pdf


on August 1,2013 | 09:56AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
You have no idea what their defense is besides what the media is portraying. Only Hart and his team know at the moment. Did you even read the document filed by hart? Everything matches up to the video with the exception of when the shots were fired as presented by the prosecution. You can even see Elderts left hand grabbing Deedy's gun hand. Until you see the defense's side you have no basis for your guesses. The document even says that shots were fired before hitting the ground.
on August 1,2013 | 10:24AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "The document even says that shots were fired before hitting the ground."

Yeah, but it also says a lot more than that. I understand why you would want to ignore those claims in light of what the video shows.

Maybe you can post one of your famous scree captures that shows Elderts grabbing Deedy's hand BEFORE Deedy starts shooting at him. Keep in mind though, if you show Elderts trying to grab Deedy's hand AFTER he starts shooting at him, that's a pretty reasonable thing for anyone to do, considering the dire circumstances.


on August 1,2013 | 10:35AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
There's one little flaw into your thought process. Only the prosecution has testified that Deedy started shooting before the gun grab. You can't see anymore than anyone else can see in the video. What happens when the defense gets someone to testify that he didn't fire at the exact moment in the video and the ballistics prove the defense's version of events? That's all a big if but I'm willing to bet it's coming.
on August 1,2013 | 10:48AM
control wrote:
why do you even bother conversing with kalaheo, he has everything in his mind made up, no sense trying to discuss it with him because he has his own "facts" based on prosecution testimony. Even if the defense brings up countering testimony he will probably stick with the prosecution.
on August 1,2013 | 12:01PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "There's one little flaw into your thought process. Only the prosecution has testified that Deedy started shooting before the gun grab. You can't see anymore than anyone else can see in the video. What happens when the defense gets someone to testify that he didn't fire at the exact moment in the video and the ballistics prove the defense's version of events?"

The prosecution didn't testify to anything. An eyewitnesses, unrelated to Deedy or Elderts testified that Deedy drew his weapon and immediately fired. If you look at the video capture, a former HPD Detective pointed out that at the time the eyewitnesses claim that Deedy fired, the cashiers can be seen to be cringing in terror and one is reaching up to cover her ears.

So in answer to you question "What happens when the defense gets someone to testify that he didn't fire at the exact moment in the video and the ballistics prove the defense's version of events?" They better be convincing.

They will have a hard time convincing anyone that the first shot that missed and thud into the wall across a crowded McDonalds was anything but a miss. If they have a "ballistics expert" who testifies that they know WHY Deedy's shots went wild, then they hired someone besides an expert in ballistics.


on August 1,2013 | 12:31PM
hapaguy wrote:
There has actually been TWO UNBIASED witnesses that have testified that Deedy pulled his gun and shot first THEN they struggled: Bryd and Salzbrenner....
on August 1,2013 | 12:42PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Thank you.
on August 1,2013 | 02:22PM
Kailuaraised wrote:
Just what I though, you're not going to believe it. It's pointless debating at this point. You have your mind made up. The prosecution introduced their experts now it's the defenses turn. If the defense calls a witness that is unrelated to anyone (maybe the security guard?) and she goes with Deedy's version, what will you say then?
on August 1,2013 | 12:55PM
hapaguy wrote:
Hey I wanna play the supposition game with you! Let's say the defense does not call an unbiased witness to rebut Bryd's and Salzbrenner's testimony that Deedy shot first and then Elderts grabbed at the gun? What will you say then?.....
on August 1,2013 | 01:28PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "If the defense calls a witness that is unrelated to anyone (maybe the security guard?) and she goes with Deedy's version, what will you say then?"

I will be very interested to hear the security guard's testimony. I don't think she will be able to testify that Deedy didn't immediate fire his gun though when the video and other eyewitnesses clearly shows he did. ,p> But it's not fair to guess what she will say. Let's wait for that testimony.


on August 1,2013 | 02:25PM
Ripoff wrote:
idk but she's hot lol
on August 1,2013 | 10:29AM
houcndat wrote:
whoa! yup! she is kinda hot!!!
on August 1,2013 | 10:59AM
Wahiawamauka wrote:
Not drunk. Showed badge. What a bunch of lies. I hope this A hole gets convicted.
on August 1,2013 | 11:11AM
whatcanisay wrote:
Just wondering if it was a off-duty cop instead of Deedy who tried to calm the situation, would Elderts and Medeiros listen to him and calm down?
on August 1,2013 | 11:16AM
control wrote:
probably would have handled it better, esp with the gun. not sure about the kick also, if it really occurred then that was not standard thing an officer would do.
on August 1,2013 | 12:02PM
whatcanisay wrote:
What I was wondering is do you think Elderts and Medeiros would've calmed down if it was an off-duty cop?
on August 1,2013 | 01:03PM
Mypualani wrote:
Calmed down? Wasn't Elderts sitting down ? Wasn't Perrine sitting down? Waiting? Them Boo. Here come Deedy with his Charles Bronson impersonation. You wanna get shot? You know acting like that can get you shot. Ms West I take it did't here that part, maybe she was just coming back after the words were said.
on August 1,2013 | 09:22PM
sailfish1 wrote:
Probably - In this case, Deedy is white, from the mainland, and a federal officer. Local people don't like any of those.
on August 1,2013 | 07:03PM
summer43 wrote:
The doctor at ER said Deedy was drunk!!! Peiod.
on August 1,2013 | 11:17AM
control wrote:
no he didn't. actually the dr said that he didn't notice any impairment. the police and others testified that they saw some indications of intoxication.
on August 1,2013 | 12:03PM
Peacenik wrote:
reply below to saysomething. my original response seemed to have been flagged and didn't show up. In short Deedy did not actually get involved until Medeiros started his menacing rant using profanity.
on August 1,2013 | 12:07PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Peacenik wrote: "In short Deedy did not actually get involved until Medeiros started his menacing rant using profanity."

Oh my goodness! He used profanity!? Why didn't you say so? It's no wonder that the State Dept decided to step in and shoot the other guy.


on August 1,2013 | 12:34PM
Mypualani wrote:
Really yeah? Now I get it
on August 1,2013 | 09:23PM
mrluke wrote:
Wrong! The ER doctor said he showed no signs of intoxication.
on August 1,2013 | 12:11PM
sailfish1 wrote:
summer - it's a good thing you're not on the jury.
on August 1,2013 | 07:04PM
SaySomethingNow wrote:
"Deedy’s defense is that he relied on his law enforcement training in trying to defuse an escalating confrontation that started when Elderts harassed another customer." Looks more like he focused on what he took to be a confrontation and decided to get involved which caused to situation to escalate where it probably would have ended had he not stood up and intervened. He can be seen standing and staring at those involved then approaching the table where Elderts sat and egaging him. Had Deedy approached Perrine to see if he was indeed fearful for his well being and asked for him to intercede then it would have been a whole different story. Lot of assuming was going on that night, didn't see too much Aloha.
on August 1,2013 | 11:18AM
Peacenik wrote:
yes according to west, deedy was interested in the interchange at the counter between deedy and perrine. she said she heard the H word being tossed around. at this point, seems no one outside those who were3 there, know how it was used. The E/M supporters will justify it saying it's a Hawaiian word meaning w/o breath and not racist. It could've been, but why mean a person's race if you don't know him? Would one go up to a stranger and say, hey Hawaiian, hey Japanese, hey Portuguese? According to the choppy tape, it wasn't till Med started trash talking to perrine, when the guard and deedy got involved. there is cause for concern when a guy start using profanity in a menacing manner toward anyone. Why would deedy need to talk to perrine, who seem like a wall-flower anyway, who I'm sure would say, no, I'm okay with it, so not to get his arse kick by the 2 drugged out locals? When i say locals, i do not say only hawaii has trouble-making locals. i'm sure these elements are present in almost any country or state. in japan they could be the yakuza, russia the mafia, L.A., the hoods, Misissippii the kkk or aryan nation.
on August 1,2013 | 12:01PM
Mypualani wrote:
IRT Peacenik, I caught that part too when M took the stand, I hung my head down in shame because I see and know exactly what you talking about. But in the end that is no reason to take an unarmed man's life. Deedy broke two law before he took Elderts life.and let's be clear here, I do not condone that kind of behavior from my students especially the stick eye stuff. I work in Waianae and Nanakuli so I know what you speak about, once I had the kids at this park where scuba diving is very popular they got boats and stuff taking tourist out. Well these two caucasian divers came out and minding their own business not bothering anyone, they get approached by one Kanaka he asked them for money/ cigarettes when the guy refused and said he didn't have any. He got punched in the face! Just like that. I called 911 and got involved because the guy was getting cracks while he lay there. You know what I did? I went up and said ho brahda hea I get cigarets fo you please stop hitting this man. I gave the guy 10.00 he went away to his tent in the bushes, the mans friend was just standing there in shock, the victim got up as I was trying to help him and make sure he was okay, now I am an older Hawaiian wahine who was raised right. The man and his friend got their gear in the car and left, got my kids out of there. The saddest part is the police didn't even show up by the time we left. I admit I have used the word H in an ugly way from time to time and prolly will when I encounter a dumb one, I ain't no angel but I am not a demon either.
on August 1,2013 | 09:46PM
control wrote:
you are also making a lot of assumptions. If there was a staredown between perrine and elderts/medeiros how do you know that a scuffle wouldn't have occurred? being a fed officer, deedy thought he could get in between it all and put a stop to any potential confrontations. unfortunately it didn't work out either. yes, I am also making some assumptions based on testimony so far, but the whole scene needs to be brought out in the trial for us to make a determination.
on August 1,2013 | 12:07PM
hapaguy wrote:
You bring up a really good point that no one has discussed: No where on the tape can you see Deedy go talk to Perrine to see if he needed help! You gotta conclude that Deedy was itching to get involved.....
on August 1,2013 | 12:46PM
Peacenik wrote:
Why would deedy need to talk to perrine? don't you think it wouldn't aggravate the situation further? Wouldn't you think E/M would think who the F is this FH butting his nose in this. Deedy did right IF he did ID himself as a FedAg to let E/M know where's his coming from. Kalaheo ridiculous rant that Maybe he was showing Eldert his hotel room key, shows his desperate grasping at straws downplay a witnesses testimony, taken under oath. Perrine show himself to be a jellyfish claiming he doesn't remember anything that night that was said. That is why the prosecutor was more than willing to have them testify on their behalf. Funny how the E/M group attacks Wests credibility but give perrine a free pass.
on August 1,2013 | 01:49PM
hapaguy wrote:
Wow I don't know where to start in response to your comment. "Why would deedy need to talk to perrine?" Well isn't Deedy's whole purpose for getting involved was because he was coming to Perrine's aid? "don't you think it wouldn't aggravate the situation further? Wouldn't you think E/M would think who the F is this FH butting his nose in this" Isn't that what Deedy did anyway? Butt his nose into something that he had no business or need to? That's the whole point that you miss: Deedy didn't even check with Perrine to see if he needed help! Deedy just interjected himself into something that he did not need to!
on August 1,2013 | 02:00PM
hapaguy wrote:
The SA censor got me so let me try again. SaySomethingNow's comment was that Deedy's whole reason for getting involved was that he was coming to Perrine's aid but not once in the video can you see Deedy speak to Perrine to actually see if Perrine needed help. Your comment that you think that this would aggravate the situation further makes no sense because Deedy did that anyway by confronting Elderts directly. Confronting Elderts directly is actually worse and would aggravate the situation more than if Deedy had just walked over and asked Perrine if he was ok....
on August 1,2013 | 02:12PM
Peacenik wrote:
I think SA should put out a list of forbidden words so all our efforts to make a point don't go down the drain. Very frustrating. You, Kalaheo and I are just speculating on the what-if's. From my experience, I speculate what I feel would happen. You and Kalaheo may have experienced different reactions. You claim to be Hapa, which normally means Asian-White mixed. How you actually look like, your size can play large part on your experience with tough (acting) Locals. I've gave experience in the past with mine, so one can't say what is right and what is wrong as to how Elderts would've responded. Don't you guys agree?
on August 1,2013 | 06:25PM
hapaguy wrote:
I don't even know how to respond to your comment because it has nothing to do with what we (SaySomethingNow) have been discussing. Only you have been speculating on the "what if's". I was merely pointing out that Deedy's defense of why he got involved was that he was coming to Perrines aid but he never even bothered to ask Perrine if he needed any help. He never even spoke to Perrine once!
on August 1,2013 | 07:10PM
Peacenik wrote:
I still don't get why you Kalaheo feel the need for Deedy to talk to Perrine. He saw Elderts pestering him at the counter using racial terms. He then saw Mensa, er, Medeiros start yelling across the room and walking in his direction saying, 'you still fn staring at me".. Let say a cop see a guy abusing his girlfriend, does he need to ask her , 'you okay?' I would imagine he would approach the guy, id himself as a cop if off duty and tell him he needs to stop. Talking to the girl first, will only make it worse later for her, if she said, 'yes, he abuses me."
on August 1,2013 | 08:50PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Peacenik wrote: "Why would deedy need to talk to perrine? don't you think it wouldn't aggravate the situation further? Wouldn't you think E/M would think who the F is this FH butting his nose in this."

If you think that going over and sitting next Perrine would "aggravate the situation" then what do you think about going over to Elderts, threatening to shoot him in the face and kicking him in the chest might do to the situation? Do you think it would settle things down? SPOILER ALERT!: (it didn't)

If I was there and I was was concerned enough about Perrine's safety to get involved but not yet concerned enough to call HPD, I would have gone over, introduced myself to Perrine, and asked him how he was doing. Once Deedy got involved, all bets were off and it was a miracle no one else got hit by stray gun fire.


on August 1,2013 | 02:55PM
Mypualani wrote:
IRT peacenik Huh? So how was it better for Deedy to go up to Elderts Nd threaten him with getting shot? OMG!
on August 1,2013 | 09:49PM
Peacenik wrote:
MYP, that seems to be the problem with you E/M supporters. Simplifying what took place. Deedy went up to Eldert show him his badge and told him to stop the pestering of Perrine. I would think under normal circumstances, a person would cooperate. Possibly due to the hard drugs he and Med partook, it muddled his thinking and gave him the bravado hoping he could beat deedy even with the odds against him. Look at the 9-11 terrorist and their bravado in sacrificing their lives for glory. It could've been local pride that made Eldert decide to challenge Deedy. If not for the gun, I'm sure Gut, Deedy and even West would've been pounded to death or to comotose. People saying how come deedy couldn't take him mano a mano. look at these female cops, i don't think they're expect to go head to head with a big guy. they're badge and gun is their leveling field. Thanks for your earlier story. hope they are more of you in WC.
on August 1,2013 | 10:33PM
MightyMakiki wrote:
Why do I get the feeling that Jessica West is telling a different story than what happened? It started last week when she first testified. Whose covering for whom?
on August 1,2013 | 11:45AM
wiliki wrote:
Sure looks like Medeiros is lying a lot. Now he claims the little woman punched him? And he doesn't remember Deedy showing his wallet to Eldert? What's going on?
on August 1,2013 | 11:49AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
MKN wrote: You stated: "Elderts didn't do anything that night to justify what happened to him. " ... You seem a little biased in my opinion.

I may be biased now that I have seen the evidence, video tape, eye witness accounts and expert testimony. I haven't seen anything to justify approaching, confronting, threatening, kicking and shooting Elderts.

He was sitting waiting for burgers and wasn't presenting a threat to anyone. I'm not related to Elderts and never met him. If I had met him, I doubt that we would be friends.

As for Eldert's striking Deedy, I find it completely reasonable and expected given Deedy's behavior. Elderts had been out drinking too. He wasn't professionally trained as Deedy was, he wasn't carrying a weapon (Deedy was carry two) and the alcohol slowed Eldert's reflexes and clouded his thinking.

There is nothing unique to Hawaii about this tragedy. You go to any place i the country where people gather after a night of drinking, find a big loud guy, go up to him, threaten to kill him him and kick him in the chest and you WILL have a brawl on your hands. You can not then say, "Oh my goodness, I when he tried to hit me back, I feared for my life so I pulled my gun and shot him."

Despite the fact that he had been arrested before, and been out drinking too, and had illegal drug metabolites in his blood and had been razzing Perinne, Elderts was very much the victim here. I believe the fact that he had been drinking that night made him easier to victimize.

I realize that may be an unpopular opinion, but it's my opinion after reviewing the detail for this event and trial.


on August 1,2013 | 11:53AM
Kailuaraised wrote:
You've only seen one sides "eye-witness" account and heard one sides "expert" testimony. Of course you haven't seen anything justifying the shot because only the prosecution has gone.
on August 1,2013 | 12:58PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Kailuaraised wrote: "You've only seen one sides "eye-witness" account and heard one sides "expert" testimony. Of course you haven't seen anything justifying the shot because only the prosecution has gone."

I'll tell what we haven't seen. I haven't seen on video where "Elderts attacked Deedy, drove him into the back corner of the restaurant, grabbed Deedy’s gun, mounted him, and started beating him in the face before Deedy fatally shot him."

That is from the opening statement. And please don't split hairs by claiming that Deedy wasn't able to hit Eldert until the third shot. Having terrible aim is not a defense. By the time Deedy fired the 3rd time, trying to grab the gun and punching him in the face the the SMARTEST thing Elderts could be doing in order to defend himself against "Yosimite Sam" Deedy and his deplorable judgement.


on August 1,2013 | 02:21PM
MKN wrote:
@Kalaheo1: So you're saying that at no time during the final sequence of events did Elderts even touch Deedy or attack Deedy and tackle him to the ground and start punching Deedy? Give me a break dude. It's all right there on video. Besides, the only reason why someon