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Isle climate harsh on asphalt

The material that is used to resurface Hawaii's roads begins with shipments of petroleum from Canada

By Marcel Honoré / mhonore@staradvertiser.com

LAST UPDATED: 07:08 p.m. HST, Feb 13, 2014

Asphalt industry experts say it's difficult to judge which climate is worse on pavement — the warm, wet tropical weather of areas such as Hawaii or the freezing temperatures in regions such as the Midwest.

Different asphalt blends are created to suit each climate, said Jerry Geib of the Minneapolis Department of Transportation's Office of Road Research. Asphalt pavement is a mix of liquid leftover petroleum, air and crushed gravel and sand.

In a wet but sun-drenched climate such as Hawaii's, ultraviolet rays tend to age the asphalt ingredient, which serves as the road's glue, or "binder," said Ricardo Archilla, associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of Hawaii. The asphalt then becomes more brittle, making it easier for water to strip the pavement away. In colder climates the elements work differently. Freezing temperatures cause the asphalt to crack and let water inside the pavement, Archilla said. When that water expands, it "heaves" the pavement up from below.

"It's a complex issue, but it's one that people see every day" when swerving to avoid potholes and cracks, said Stephen Muench, associate professor of construction engineering at the University of Washington.


» Click Here | An updated listing of Hawaii's road conditions that are in failed and serious condition. (Courtesy Office of the Mayor.)


» Star-Advertiser: New city data detail the condition of Oahu’s roads and find that nearly 28 percent range from “poor” to “failed.” Also, what materials go into making our roads.

» Hawaii News Now: Tonight, an in-depth look at two City Council districts that need the most work.


» Star-Advertiser: For years, city and state governments put off needed maintenance and repair work on roadways and diverted funds to other priorities. Also, critics wonder if the city can pull off its plan to spend big money on road repairs.

» Hawaii News Now: Will a more expensive asphalt product keep our road repair in place longer than the next heavy rain?


For nine days the Star-Advertiser will print full-page maps of each City Council district highlighting road conditions in each area.

Cities, Muench said, need to think of road construction as just the beginning.

"Very rarely does a road disappear. You build it and it's there," he said. "If you look at it as a permanent being, you're more consumed by its upkeep costs."

Hawaii's asphalt industry — a machine that helps keep the islands' vehicles moving and economy humming — actually starts in Canada, local industry officials say.

Just about all of the liquid asphalt, the "bottom-of-the-barrel" petroleum that binds the roads here together, is shipped from ports there, including New Brunswick on the mainland's eastern coast.

After a 7,500-mile journey and a trek through the Panama Canal from New Brunswick, the liquid eventually arrives in Kalaeloa Harbor, at the Asphalt Hawaii plant.

Until recently Asphalt Hawaii controlled about 85 percent of the state's liquid asphalt market to Tesoro Corp.'s 15 percent. But with Tesoro phasing out production at its Kapolei refinery by the end of April, Asphalt Hawaii will become the islands' sole supplier of liquid asphalt, industry officials say.

Asphalt Hawaii President Dick Levin said his company can provide the share left behind by Tesoro and that Asphalt Hawaii doesn't plan to raise prices despite taking hold of the local market. "I'm not particularly demand driven; I'm cost-driven," Levin said this past week. "That's just how we worked from the very beginning. We've been bringing such large amounts that the price stays stable for a long period."

He would not say how much liquid asphalt the company ships to the islands each year. However, about 75,000 tons of the liquid were needed to produce the 1.2 million tons of asphalt pavement laid across the state in 2012.

Three asphalt pavement contractors buy the liquid from Asphalt Hawaii to make the roads laid down on Oahu: Grace Pacific Corp., Road and Highway Builders LLC, and Jas. W. Glover Ltd. Grace Pacific is considered the largest of the three contractors. It has two asphalt-mixing plants on the island, while the other two companies have one each, said Darrell Goo, Grace Pacific senior vice president of operations. With more city repaving contracts going out to bid, Road and Highway Builders intends to invest more equipment, materials and personnel on Oahu, company Vice President Rick Thompson said recently.

Asphalt roads are composed of about 5 percent liquid asphalt, 4 percent air and the rest a mix of crushed rock, gravel and sand. Grace Pacific gets its rock from a Maka­kilo quarry, which it owns, as well as the Ameron Hawaii Kapaa quarry.

Paving and repaving can be a more complicated production than it might appear, Goo said. Asphalt pavement on Oahu generally has to be mixed at 300 degrees Fahrenheit and it must be at least 250 degrees when laid on the road, Goo said. That gives road repavers a window of about an hour to do the repaving work, and it also means the city has to have its traffic plans ready in advance, he added.

"All of that is the underlying thing that people don't see," Goo said.

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palani wrote:
While the damage caused by ultraviolet radiation is a significant factor in our short-lived roads, the upper Midwest with its extreme cold and heat (summer temperatures near 100 degrees for weeks at a time) and frequent use of corrosive salt to melt snow and ice is a much more difficult environment. Florida also has consistently higher, salt-laden humidity and temperature levels than Hawaii, yet its highways are somehow better maintained. Traffic loads, especially heavy trucks, in these ares are much greater than here as well.

Our climate is among the most benign of any in the U.S., yet the overall condition of our roads is near the bottom. Using it as a scapegoat for our poor quality asphalt and workmanship is a lame, indefensible excuse.

on March 24,2013 | 05:05AM
onevoice82 wrote:
Although your statement is mostly true, the major deficit is that those areas on the mainland simply spend more money maintaining the roads on a regular basis. That neglect here in Hawaii is the major culprit for our deplorable conditions.
on March 24,2013 | 05:40AM
onevoice82 wrote:
I retract my statement above! I just read the article about Portland streets and we pay a lot more money then them for our roads.
on March 24,2013 | 05:48AM
palani wrote:
Yeah, but they have a great, albeit underused, rail system. From governing.com, Portland Struggles to Remain a Leader in Public Transit:

Reduced revenue and federal funding, combined with unsustainable employee costs, are making it difficult for the Oregon city to stay on top.

on March 24,2013 | 05:57AM
bender wrote:
But you are correct about the neglect portion. It's not as if we haven't provided enough money, it's just that city government diverted it to other purposes. I believe that beginning with Mufi that rail started sucking the road repair budget dry.
on March 24,2013 | 05:58AM
bender wrote:
Replying to palani. There are such things as UV inhibitors. Don't know if it would be practical or cost effective to add to the asphalt mix.
on March 24,2013 | 06:00AM
palani wrote:
As a former chemist, I'm well aware of such additives, and their limitations, bender. However, that is one of the excuses offered in the article.

In a wet but sun-drenched climate such as Hawaii's, ultraviolet rays tend to age the asphalt ingredient, which serves as the road's glue, or "binder," said Ricardo Archilla, associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of Hawaii.

on March 24,2013 | 06:19AM
HonoluluHawaii wrote:
How did u get just the word bender made bold?
on March 24,2013 | 12:33PM
kahuku01 wrote:
IRT palani: I agree with you and if Hawaii uses the same asphalt mixture as the Midwest or Southwest, the roadway surfaces should last just as long as the mainland. It starts with a deep solid compacted blue rock foundation. Using Hawaii's coral type gravel for the base will crack or sink the asphalt top because it tends to breakdown to sand when water gets to it. If you observe the roadways, the asphalt surface tend to sink and crack because of the foundation not being able to hold the weight of the vehicles especially the 18 wheelers and buses. Why do you think thick concrete slabs are used for bus stops? Because if asphalt is used the base (dirt and coral) cannot withstand the constant weight of the buses. How often has Kamehameha Hyway from Kaneohe to Kahaluu required resurfacing because of the foundation giving and asphalt top cracking and pot holes appearing all over? Just scraping the existing asphalt top and compacting the existing foundation with rollers will only have the same problem unless new material for a deep foundation is compacted solid before a new asphalt top is laid out.
on March 24,2013 | 06:50AM
Grimbold wrote:
This comment has been deleted.
on March 24,2013 | 07:22AM
Skyler wrote:
True x 2.
on March 24,2013 | 10:50AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
Friends from the mainland, who are contractors, say they can tell that the base course is poor.
on March 24,2013 | 11:48PM
mainland_refugee wrote:
Maybe Hawaii need its OWN special asphalt mixture for roadway surfaces....
on March 26,2013 | 07:27AM
Skyler wrote:
Well-said. I'm sure they could learn a thing or two about maintenance & coordination of repairs from the mainland, too. South Florida has similar conditions, yet their roads are in much better condition - even though they have traffic worse than ours. And I have never seen anyone anywhere else patch a pot hole in such a shameless way as to throw hot, black kitty-litter in it & let 'traffic' tamp it down - rain or shine. Who are they trying to kid??
Our Government doesn't help at all. It diverts Highway funds to other purposes, yet they have the gall to ask for more money in the way of gas tax, etc. Glad the City Council shot that down.
on March 24,2013 | 10:49AM
JAFO wrote:
IRT Skyler. Job security.
on March 24,2013 | 11:50AM
Skyler wrote:
yeah... i know. Pitiful as it is.
on March 25,2013 | 12:53AM
pj737 wrote:
That and we don't use rubberized asphalt even if it lasts much longer than conventional asphalt and reduces road noise considerably. Here in Hawaii we need to make sure we go with the least durable product to provide job protection for our union employees. It's called planned obsolescense... and our government does a wonderful job embracing this policy.
on March 24,2013 | 11:13AM
waikiicapt wrote:
Rule #1, you get what you pay for. Rule #2, when you 'fail', try doing something different. Rule #3, learn from somebody else's mistakes. Sorry, but I don't buy much of what this article says. I'm certain (based on years of driving on bad roads here) that these guys think they are doing their best. They are not. I've driven on the mainland in "hot" places and "cold/wet" places and have not experienced the consistently bad roads collectively in any one spot as we have here in Hawaii. As many comments below suggest, first problem is a simple engineering issue. The foundation of the roads is designed around doing a job cheaply. For the contractor, this ensures an "investment" in their own future. It's self serving. For politicians managing tight budgets, it shows an effort to keep costs down (initially) and the public likes seeing new road repair projects. So generally, everybody is happy at first. But locals are getting savvy to this whole charade. BUILD A BETTER ROAD FROM THE START! Pay the higher initial expense so that you don't spend MORE over the long run in repairs and maintenance and total replacement years later. But THAT will never happen here as the "contractors" will continue to spoon feed campaign donations to politicians and assure them they are getting the "best deal" for what they are paying. With little construction competition and even less so in materials and supplies...Hawaii is virtually guaranteed to live with horrible roads our entire lifetime.
on March 24,2013 | 11:33AM
tsushimama wrote:
I agree. I drove extensively throughout Thailand for a month in cities and the countryside and their roads were in much better repair than ours. This after coming out of a cataclysmic flood in the months immediately preceding my stay. I have also driven in the southeast U.S. and not seen the type of poor roadways that we seen here. Same for Europe! There has to be a better way than we are doing it here.
on March 24,2013 | 09:11PM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
Go to Japan. Visit all the areas you saw getting slammed by the immense tsunami. Those same roads are STILL THERE. I know, I drove on them shortly after the roads were cleared and they look better than most newly paved roads in Honolulu...unbelievable.
on March 24,2013 | 11:52PM
hawaiikone wrote:
It would appear that "planned obsolescence" is the guiding factor driving the quality of repairs done to our roads in Hawaii. Attempts at improving the longevity of these repairs could possibly result in a lack of work for contractors, an economic reality not very conducive to encouraging the search for a better way...
on March 24,2013 | 06:45AM
localtodamax808 wrote:
the other alternative......concrete....it'll last 30 yrs. Im sure Asphalt Hawaii won't be too happy with this suggestion...lol!!!
on March 24,2013 | 07:35AM
hilocal wrote:
localtodamax808, what happens to concrete if sewer or water pipes need to be fixed?
on March 24,2013 | 08:31AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
Cement saw. Never saw one?
on March 24,2013 | 11:53PM
soundofreason wrote:
Maybe they would do good to open a sister company for repairs. Maybe call it Asph-hole Hawaii. Say it 5 times fast ;)
on March 24,2013 | 08:32AM
Skyler wrote:
Once was enough. ;-)

If the roads are in poor shape, it's their own as- phalt.
on March 24,2013 | 10:51AM
Hank13 wrote:
Potholes are defects in the laying of the asphalt. I think the most important thing that goes unchecked is the 250deg. that the asphalt has to be laid down at. If there are even inspectors out at the jobs, I would bet they seldom check the temp. They know it would not be 250deg. Big Island roads are paved really well. Less traffic excuse does not apply! All the paving jobs being done are useless when they are poorly laid. Either hire inspectors, or make them accountable. If you are going to get out on the roads Caldwell, make sure your inspectors are doing there job. I hope you can do a better job at that, than filling potholes.
on March 24,2013 | 06:47AM
mellishi wrote:
...I agree - hot mix is what is needed! Yet, I once used a bag of QuickQuete Asphalt Mix from City Mill to do a patch in my deteriorating driveway and it is holding up better than the original asphalt layed 30 years ago!
on March 24,2013 | 06:56AM
localguy wrote:
Whine, whine, whine. Where ever our road repair industry starts it doesn't make the grade, earns an F. Roads in Okinawa and mailand Japan, take a far harsher beating from hot weather, rain, cool winter weather to include freezing and their roads are world class. It is obvious we keep using the same out of date methods and expect different results. Obviously if the current method fails then it is time to try something new. How about sending people to Japan, Okinawa, and other countries who have world class roads to learn how they do it. Yes, it would admit we are decades behind them, laughing stocks, but it just might solve our problem and reduce wasted tax dollars. Doing the same ole, same ole, will never fix the problem. So when do we start?
on March 24,2013 | 06:56AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
on March 24,2013 | 11:54PM
fishnfool wrote:
This article is a lot of BS. Hawaii's climate is actually easy on asphalt roads. The problem is the roads are not maintained properly. Once a road begins to break up, water penetrates the underlying base which becomes soft and turns into a chuckhole. In many places on the island, I notice the base rock layer is not sufficient to hold up to heavy traffic. Placing new asphalt over an inadequade base is just wasting money. Prior to overlayment, alligator cracked areas indicating a failed base need to be dug out and plugged with additional asphalt or base rock. But there is no need for the roads to reach the point where failed areas break up into chuckholes. Preventative maintenance and regular appications of slurry and chip seals can preserve the life of pavements. But I don't see much of that happening here. In fact we should change our name from the 'Aloha' state to the 'Chuckhole' state. But the biggest problem of is priorities. If you divert nearly all the money intended for roads over to transit, then you get what we see out on the roads right now. I have never seen the roads as bad as they are right now. And as to priorities, I notice the daily road closure out on the Farrington while landscaping is installed in the center lane. All this is happening right as motorists bounce through huge chuckholes in the lanes alongside the closure. Again its all about priorities and based on I guess based on the conditions our roads are in, they must be pretty low on the totem pole.
on March 24,2013 | 07:14AM
onevoice82 wrote:
Don't ever use that word "chip seal" again! We do not ever want that used on Hawaii roads. Bicyclists will be jarred right off the road. Chip seal belongs on long stretches of road in desert and mountain areas where no bicyclist has gone before! Cheers fishnfool! Love the rest of your comment though.
on March 24,2013 | 08:27AM
Wazdat wrote:
Oahu uses the WORST material and should hire some japenese to come over and TEACH dem DOT workers
on March 24,2013 | 07:15AM
AmbienDaze wrote:
i no think faye hanohano going like that one. gotta be hawaiian.
on March 24,2013 | 12:47PM
localtodamax808 wrote:
The state and city has specs for its asphalt mix...it hasn't changed since the 1950s...why? Someone needs to do more research for the best mix for Hawaii's climate.
on March 24,2013 | 07:25AM
localguy wrote:
Those in charge of road maintenance haven't changed from the 50s either, stuck in time. Same with our traffic signals, so many are still controlled by timers, holding traffic when there is no one crossing, cycling like lost children all night long. Traffic management? Oh puhleeze, give me a break.
on March 24,2013 | 07:47AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
"Asphalt industry experts say it's difficult to judge which climate is worse on pavement — the warm, wet tropical weather of areas such as Hawaii or the freezing temperatures in regions such as the Midwest."

Please don't insult our intelligence like this.

Roads in Florida get blasted by high levels levels of uv everyday in 100 weather then experience heavy storms weekly. Their roads are smooth and solid.

The Midwest roads get hit with uv and heat all summer and wet freezing weather all winter while being scraped with snow plows and having corresive salt dumped directly on top.

If you don't believe me, go over to Maui or Kauai. Their roads are smooth as glass. It's the same environment. The problem with roads on Oahu isn't uv light or rain, it's a culture of no oversight, incompetence and shoddy work. Nothing demonstrates this better than Mr Caldwell's pothole repair media event where he had himself filmed slopping cold asphalt into a water filled unprepared pothole and slapping it with shovel with a team of facilities management employees all doing the same thing. I wonder why the reporter didn't ask any of these "asphalt industry experts" if that was the proper way to repair roads.

Please Star-Advertiser. We need a reall newspaper. Propaganda pieces like this don't help Oahu become a better place. It doesn't help your readers and it obscures the truth.
on March 24,2013 | 07:57AM
Hank13 wrote:
You're absolutely right! One would think a politician or a paving company executive wrote the article littered with excuses. Promises and excuses. One gets politicians in and the other comes in handy more often than not. We picked 'em.
on March 24,2013 | 09:09AM
Skyler wrote:
Thanks- just pointed that out in an earlier comment. South Florida also has more traffic than we will ever have. What we have here is a 'job 'insecurity' problem.
on March 24,2013 | 10:54AM
inverse wrote:
100 percent correct. This article is nothing more than a BS propaganda article to make excuses for inadequate, ill conceived, pathetic and basically incompetent Oahu road repair work. And as Skyler pointed out Florida has way MORE 18 wheel Semi tractor trailors that drive on their highways at 70mph, 24 hours a day.
on March 24,2013 | 12:02PM
sayer wrote:
When I've been to Florida - the roads are great. Hawaii's have to be some of the worst in the country!
on March 24,2013 | 03:42PM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
... by the end of April, Asphalt Hawaii will become the islands' sole supplier of liquid asphalt,

Another monopoly! So what can we expect, kids? Yes, that's right....higher prices and less product availability. How will Kirk keep to his plan when there is only one supplier of the key product?

on March 24,2013 | 08:09AM
AmbienDaze wrote:
yes maneki, same situation as the school bus problem, costs out of control with no government oversight. how come folks like us and other commenters can see this, but not government officials?
on March 24,2013 | 12:52PM
soundofreason wrote:
Stop the guesswork and simply PICK UP THE PHONE and ask Vegas how THEY can manage to keep THEIR roads so nice when they have to deal with EXTREME temperatures EVERY year from below freezing to 115 plus degrees along with several bouts of flooding.
on March 24,2013 | 08:29AM
mcc wrote:
Maybe the council should go on another junket to Las Vegas to see what they do. All our politicians need to keep up their miles earned.
on March 24,2013 | 08:54AM
mcc wrote:
Our roads are in disrepair due to inept politicians who constantly kick the can down the road. our roads are like the water mains, sewer line, schools, university, public buildings, etc. We have been looking for a place to dump our trash for years and have no real solutions. Our prisons are overcrowded. So much deferred maintenance and every new politician just builds his or her own pi
on March 24,2013 | 08:50AM
mcc wrote:
piece of junk to liet go into disrepair. Nex we will have a train, that will not alleviate the traffic problems and rust like our stadium. Cut the new projects, fix what we have.
on March 24,2013 | 08:52AM
localguy wrote:
Nei bureaucrats will have to quit kowtowing to electrical car owners and special interest groups, come up with a way to bill them for their "Fair Share" of road maintenance costs. I would recommend tracking their yearly mileage, checked during annual safety inspections, send them a bill for say, $.05 - .10 cents per mile driven. Drive 10k miles, you could pay between $500 - $1,000 a year towards maintenance costs. A very small price to pay since using solar panels to recharge your car means you pay only the HECO connection fee, under $25 per month. Quit whining EV owners, you know you have to pay, just do it.
on March 24,2013 | 09:33AM
localguy wrote:
Nei bureaucrats will have to quit kow towing to electrical car owners and special interest groups, come up with a way to bill them for their "Fair Share" of road maintenance costs. I would recommend tracking their yearly mileage, checked during annual safety inspections, send them a bill for say, $.05 - .10 cents per mile driven. Drive 10k miles, you could pay between $500 - $1,000 a year towards maintenance costs. A very small price to pay since using solar panels to recharge your car means you pay only the HECO connection fee, under $25 per month. Quit whining EV owners, you know you have to pay, just do it.
on March 24,2013 | 09:33AM
Skyler wrote:
You must work for the Transportation Dept. because your argument has as many holes in it as our pitiful roads.
on March 25,2013 | 01:01AM
oxtail01 wrote:
The writer ONLY use the excuses put out by the local sector but doesn't point out any of the REAL issues, which are the poor quality of materials used, shortcuts taken in construction, poor workmanship, and poor quality control oversight. The City and State "inspectors" almost NEVER force suppliers and contractors to meet even minimum standards in proper quality and construction.
on March 24,2013 | 10:59AM
808noelani wrote:
The public can whine all they llike but why should they do it right if that will affect their job security and overtime.
on March 24,2013 | 11:04AM
lokahiblaze wrote:
But I've also heard rumors that Hawaii uses an inferior grade of asphalt on its roads. Any truth to that?
on March 24,2013 | 11:29AM
localguy wrote:
Inferior asphalt, inferior workers, match made in heaven.
on March 24,2013 | 10:41PM
serious wrote:
There was a long article in Reader's Digest a few years ago comparing the USA with Germany on roads. There, the contractor, guarantees the road for 40 years and follows up with repairs.
on March 24,2013 | 11:42AM
al_kiqaeda wrote:
The cost of a German road is really high. But they do the job right. Massive base course layer. The Autobahn has a foundation thick enough to absorb the landing of a 747 on it according to History Channel's Modern Marvels. That's to insure a perfectly flat surface for high speed cars, but the side benefit is no potholes.
on March 25,2013 | 12:01AM
Waipahunokaoi wrote:
It's simple folks. We, the tax payer, end up with nothing but excuses while we foot the bill. Hope you all read between the lines.
on March 24,2013 | 11:56AM
inverse wrote:
If the City of Honolulu cannot maintain roads dues to Oahu's "harsh" climate, what makes them think they can maintain a STEEL ON STEEL electrified train that is exposed to the EXACT same elements that Oahu's roads are not able to be maintained? The steel rail tracks have to maintain close tolerances in terms of positioning and they cannot be painted as they have to be in constant contact with a rotating steel wheels, they will have full time exposure to the same salt air environment as roads AND they have to be electrified where water and electricity do NOT mix. If the City of Honolulu cannot adequately maintain asphalt roads and are left with the media making excuses for them, there is NO WAY they can maintain an elevated steel on steel, ELECTRIFIED 20 mile train.
on March 24,2013 | 12:15PM
sayer wrote:
So true!!!!
on March 24,2013 | 03:43PM
localguy wrote:
Harsh climate? Oh puhleeze, we never have freezing temps, never gets over 100 degrees. So why do they call our road conditions "Harsh" but never use the same term for tourist weather? More shibai spin to try and cover up our 4th world road repair standards.
on March 24,2013 | 10:43PM
Skyler wrote:
Gonna be a rust bucket express, for sure.
on March 25,2013 | 01:03AM
Bumby wrote:
We Oahuans have become a certain breed of crabs that have gotten a reputation of being snowed over in sunny Hawaii. Get your best salesman and they'll buy as long as it sounds good.
on March 24,2013 | 01:08PM
hikine wrote:
Why not use concrete asphalt? The initial cost might be expensive but it lasts longer than regular asphalt. Regular asphalt cost more in the long run with maintenance and replacement every so many years.
on March 24,2013 | 02:02PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Not only are the guys from Falicities Management not fixing the roads, but it looks like some of them are getting taxpayers to pay for their cars too.

"The report also called the city's policy on take-home city-owned vehicles "inadequate and unenforceable." While forms are supposed to be filed for personal use of a city vehicle, neither the Department of Budget and Fiscal Services nor the Department of Facility Maintenance "effectively monitor which employees have take-home vehicle authority."

on March 24,2013 | 03:48PM
Hank13 wrote:
I have to again bring up the Pali highway. Millions were spent laying down the concrete lane only to be later restricted from being used between 5am-12noon. When asked why, the Dept. of Trans. said it was because of noise. I think it was delaying the wear and they did a good job of accelerating the wear of the asphalt lanes by putting up the signs. Taking care of the paving companies at our expense. Lift the restriction Caldwell. Who sleeps until 12noon?
on March 24,2013 | 07:55PM
localguy wrote:
Who sleeps until 12noon? Easy, the entire management of Dept of Trans, they live along the road. Get up around noon, get to work around 1pm, home by 5pm. Yeah, really under worked and over paid. Noisy concrete. Give me a break.
on March 24,2013 | 10:46PM
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