Activists often profess to work on behalf of those with no voice at the table, and in Marjorie Ziegler’s case, the assertion is literally true.
As executive director of the Conservation Council for Hawaii, she strives to protect Hawaii’s native plants and animals — species that depend on human intervention to undo ravages caused by mankind’s earlier missteps.
The nonprofit group, founded in 1950, is Hawaii’s affiliate in the National Wildlife Federation. Ziegler, one other paid staff member and a dedicated corps of contributing members build coalitions that educate the public, elected officials and policymakers about important issues and recommend appropriate responses.
Most recently, Ziegler and the CCH helped mobilize opposition to Gov. David Ige’s nomination of a development-industry lobbyist to head the state’s Board of Land and Natural Resources and the department it oversees. That effort succeeded, and the nomination was withdrawn.
Ziegler, 59, grew up in Kaneohe steeped in environmentalism. She said her father, Alan Ziegler, an acclaimed scientist and activist, was among "the people in the 1970s that were real warriors. It was not a friendly time for them. That’s why I count my blessings because as difficult as it is sometimes, we can go to the Legislature and there are friendly faces there."
A product of Windward Oahu public schools, Ziegler holds a bachelor’s degree in geography from the University of Hawaii. She’s been executive director of CCH since 2003, having earlier worked for the city’s Department of Parks and Recreation, the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund (now Earthjustice) and KAHEA: The Hawaiian Environmental Alliance.
Intent on expanding the CCH, Ziegler welcomes "everyone who cares about Hawaii to learn about our unique ecosystems and all the native wildlife. It’s a beautiful world. Help us protect it."
QUESTION: Let’s start with Carleton Ching. Your group came out very quickly opposed to his nomination. Now that it has been withdrawn, what kind of leader would you like to see for BLNR and DLNR?
ANSWER: First, I’d like to say, since I have the mic, so to speak, that we’d really like to thank the senators who came out and indicated that they would not be supporting the nomination. And we’d like to thank the governor (David Ige) and (his) chief of staff, Mike McCartney. Because it takes a big man to say, "OK."
The governor withdrew the nomination knowing he didn’t have the votes and I really appreciate that, and so we want to go on record.
Q: And as for a replacement?
A: We’re not pushing any specific people for the job. We, of course, have opinions about what kind of person we’d like to see lead. I would love to see a woman lead. But more importantly, someone who has demonstrated expertise in cultural and natural resource management is key. Someone who’s got at least a clue about public trust doctrine. Someone knowledgeable about the water issues, which involve the public trust doctrine, that are current, especially on Maui right now.
We need someone who can look at some of the underutilized state properties, especially in the urban setting, and get those properties to bring in some income. Because I don’t think we’re going to see the Legislature stepping up and increasing the budget. In fact, right now, the House budget that just crossed over to the Senate has zero dollars in three very important programs in the DLNR.
Q: What are those programs?
A: The Natural Area Reserve Fund, which protects the ceded-land reserves and private lands that have natural-area quality properties — forests, watersheds, ecosystems. …
The second one is the Legacy Land Fund, which uses part of the conveyance tax to purchase properties for the public use.
The third one is the Hawaii Invasive Species Council. The Council is Cabinet-level, with the heads of departments that are focused on invasive species, so that’s DLNR, Department of Agriculture and others. And the Council funds the invasive species committees on each island, and they work with private landowners to get rid of invasive species on their properties.
So those are three very, very important programs that have zero dollar amounts in the House budget that just crossed over and that’s very discouraging.
Q: The Senate version did not do that though?
A: Right. We’ll see what happens when the two meet in conference and go over the budget. But it’s a discouraging signal right after the Carleton Ching nomination. Everybody is aware that the DLNR is underfunded and the mandate is huge. … One of the things that came out is that 1 percent of the entire state budget is just not enough for DLNR.
Q: So focusing more specifically on your group: You’ve been around since the 1950s, right? What are your top priorities now?
A: One of our top priorities is invasive species. We’re not on the ground, we’re a small organization, two staff people. So we focus on the policy level. One of our concerns is the use of sensitive native ecosystems — forests, watersheds, habitats for rare and endangered species — for hunting of introduced game. So what we want to do is focus on reaching out to decisionmakers about how we can have hunting in appropriate areas for people who depend on the meat for food, and still not have these animals destroy these sensitive watersheds and habitats.
There always seems to be this tension that hunters feel like they’re losing areas as they are fenced and being protected for other values. But, in fact, there are lots of lands available for hunting. So we want to do some outreach on that. That’s one of our highest priorities.
Q: We’re talking mostly about wild pigs?
A: All the game mammals that are hunted here were introduced. So that’s feral pigs, feral sheep, feral goats. The mouflon, which are hybrid sheep that were brought in for hunting, and then the deer.
Q: So they’re all essentially invasive species, or at least introduced species?
A: They are. They’re invasive and they’re introduced. And politically speaking it’s impossible probably to get rid of them. I don’t think that’s going to happen. But I think that what we can start to do is really identify the areas that are appropriate for hunting and manage those areas for sustainable yield hunting. You know: bag limits, season limits, planting trees for food. These animals need to eat. That’s why they are so destructive; they eat trees and plants. And then fence them in. Keep them contained. Because everybody pays the price when these animals run loose. The farmers, the ranchers, homeowners. Even I have pigs in my yard. They do a lot of damage.
Q: You live Windward?
A: I’m in Kahaluu. I’m against the Pali. The hunters were just in my neighborhood last week. They know when the pigs start coming down and they say, "Can we go hunt?" and we say, "Yes, just control your dogs." … One guy came and trapped and he caught three generations of pigs in one season. It’s a real problem. So that’s a real high priority for us.
Another one is the monk seal. We have some educational materials and products. You saw some (the group sells reusable bags decorated with images of monk seals) and we’ve also done brochures and other materials.
Q: What’s the main message?
A: Our outreach is to local people and to tourists, and it’s to encourage people to appreciate this animal and to make a little space for it and to welcome it back. … They’re here and they are going to go where they need to go. … With the ungulates, we can have hunting areas and fences, but with seals you can’t fence them in, you can’t hunt them. Just let them be.
Q: Speaking of fences, do you get any pushback from hikers about that?
A: Sometimes. They don’t call us, but we hear complaints to the state about the way the fence looks or that they want to make sure that they can get over the fence.
Usually when you have fences in popular areas, the forestry and wildlife people are very conscientious about the hikers. There are usually doors and one-way gates and ways that people can get through.
There was some pushback, for example, on the predator-proof fence in Kaena when it was first proposed. But it seems like everyone has adjusted. It seems to be working. The birds are mating and the dogs are not able to get at the birds anymore.
Q: That used to be a big problem?
A: Yes. One or two dogs could just wipe out the whole season, killing the wedge-tailed shearwaters and the albatrosses. And now the seals are left alone, too, because there’s no dogs. … Rats even can’t get over the fence. Rats can do a lot of damage, especially to ground-nesting birds. I read an account where rats were actually eating a live albatross who was on her egg, or on her chick, and she wouldn’t move and those rats were just on her back, eating her alive. It’s really sad.
Q: Looking ahead, what are your goals for the next few years, what would you like to accomplish in Hawaii?
A: So, program-wise, the budget for the Department of Land and Natural Resources has always been a concern of ours and I think the Carleton Ching nomination really brought that to light again. … We would like to organize citizens a little bit more than we do now, to speak to their legislators about what is important to them and to us. … I want to have the capacity to mobilize people quickly, by political district. … This nomination really made me see that it can come down to one vote. Every single senator or representative that we elect into office matters. We simply must elect more people who care about the environment.
Q: You do educational outreach for lawmakers, too?
A: Yes. We’d really like to finish a report that we have for the Legislature that shows how much land is available for hunters on state properties and offer some recommendations. … We only protect 10 percent of our watershed, which is the source of our water supply. … It doesn’t make sense to me. The watersheds are very important to all of us, and, again, the threats are these hoofed mammals, and some of the superweeds, like strawberry guava, miconia and others that will just reduce the watershed function of our forests if they take over. So those are high priorities for us.
Q: That’s why you want more inspectors, too?
A: Yes, we need more inspectors at our ports of entry. … We need a good biosecurity program. Invasives just keep coming in. They keep hitting the beekeepers, the coffee growers. It’s just one pest after another. We can pay now, or we can pay a lot more later. …
Q: How would you assess the state of environmentalism in Hawaii today? …
A: … It is better than it was 30 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. There are more informed people, coming from small-kid-time in the schools where they learn what endemic means, what native species are. … They grow up and then we’re starting to see people get elected to the Legislature. There’s a critical mass. It’s not enough. But at least it’s more than one or two people in each house that care about the environment. …
Q: Is the public more involved?
A: Yes and no. People are mobilized. There are more people who care and get involved. But there also are people who are discouraged because things are not happening, so they don’t get more involved. …
What hasn’t changed are the institutions that keep progress from happening. The Legislature hasn’t really changed. The Senate has improved its rules of operation a bit in the last 10 years, but it’s still the committee chairs who can hear a bill or not, and kill it just by not hearing it. They still control the purse strings in the budget process, which most people like you and me can’t even follow because it’s so convoluted. …
So the institutions that keep us from making progress in environmental protection have not changed, but I think people’s awareness and their willingness to get involved and speak out is increasing. We want to grow and contribute to that.
