As the chief academic officer of Hawaii’s public schools, Deputy Superintendent Ronn Nozoe was the point man for a reform movement that demanded more of teachers and principals in an all-out effort to boost opportunity and achievement for students.
Now, as he rises to a new post in the U.S. Department of Education, as deputy assistant secretary for policy and programs in the Office of Elementary and Secondary Education, Nozoe reflects on his five-year tenure as deputy superintendent at the state DOE, notable for gains by students amid heavier workloads and accountability for school-level educators and administrators.
The latter has made Nozoe the target of intense criticism at times, with some principals particularly critical of DOE initiatives they insist are too top-down to serve diverse schools and students.
Nozoe, who started as a teacher at King Intermediate School and spent his career until now moving up within Hawaii’s DOE, makes no apologies for striving to raise the bar for all public-school students.
He expresses deep admiration for colleagues, from individual campuses up to the state office, who have helped lead the charge in Hawaii’s unique single, statewide school district.
A 1984 Punahou School alumnus who holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees from the University of Hawaii, Nozoe and his wife, Rochelle, are the parents of four children, ranging in age from middle school to college, who have attended a mix of public and private schools. Off the job, attending their sporting events and extracurricular activities brings Nozoe his greatest satisfaction.
"Every child in this state should have access to a world-class educational experience. It doesn’t matter if it’s public, private, homeschool; take your pick," said Nozoe. "Understanding that there are inequities or inequalities currently helps me think about what we should be striving for."
Question: Maybe we could start (with) what you think your biggest accomplishments have been over the past five years. And then the second part of that question is: What are the biggest challenges, or what is unfinished; what did you not get done that you wanted to? But start with the accomplishments.
Answer: I think some of the most important accomplishments are the principal- and teacher-engagement components of our work.
Establishing the Deputy’s Principals Roundtable has been not only one of the most fun, but also the most professionally and personally rewarding undertakings.
Similarly the Teacher Leader Workgroup … that works on changes and improvements to the Educator Effectiveness System. It’s about 100 teachers statewide. They come together, roll up their sleeves and work on the real grass-roots perspective, field-based type of changes and improvements that need to be made. …
So those two mechanisms; I am very proud of that work.
Q: Because it allows you to get the feedback directly from the field?
A: Right. It’s not just feedback. It’s more like input. There’s difference … Feedback is kind of reactive. Input is more (proactive). … So we try to balance both of those venues with a slightly heavier focus on input, but also create a mechanism for feedback. … What has come out of those groups has been awe-inspiring. I say this all the time: We have good people in the Department of Education. We didn’t always have systems in place, we didn’t always have structures aligned the way we needed to, but we always had good people.
Q: What do you mean by systems and structures?
A: … In past years, there wasn’t a very clean alignment between Board of Ed policy and direction, Department of Education policy and direction and all the pieces that lead through complex areas and schools. So the targets weren’t clear. The objectives weren’t clear. What we were going to work on together wasn’t clear. … Which is leading into the second thing that I am very proud of. I’m very proud of the alignment that we’ve been able to create between the Strategic Plan, the Complex Area operational plans, the school academic plans and then, ultimately, the Board of Education.
Q: I don’t want to skip the challenges questions, but you also have been a lightning rod for some criticism. Is some of that criticism because of the top-downness and principals who don’t like the alignment, who see that as too much direction coming from the top when they previously had more authority to do what they wanted? Could you talk about that?
A: Well, I think you accurately described it. That’s kind of what it is. What I have stayed true to is: How is this going to help kids? Is it going to help kids be better prepared for college and career? Is it going to help kids be better prepared for life after school? Knowing what our challenges are as a state, making sure that we have really educated and good citizens in the state, coming out of our schools every year, at an increasing level of quality. …
Q: … You are a former principal?
A: I’m a former teacher, former principal, former complex-area superintendent, child of public-school teachers.
Q: And you are personally convinced that … having this systemwide direction is better than having what the critics describe as school-level empowerment?
A: Let’s put it this way. In 2001, when No Child Left Behind was authorized, … I remember the first goal statewide for reading on our state test was 30 percent proficient. And the first goal for percent of proficient students (in math) statewide was 10 percent. …
Q: That’s low.
A: That’s beyond low. That’s embarrassing. … Schools have worked very hard to raise the bar for kids. Painfully so. And people have given a lot of personal sacrifice to make that happen. Teachers, principals, support staff — all of the above. Students themselves. When we talk about where we are now, in the 70s.
Q: (Percent) proficient?
A: Yeah. … We need to get to 80s and 90s, but this is definitely (the right direction). … People should be very proud of the work that we’ve accomplished together. Has it been painful? Yes. Has there been opposition to it? Is there opposition to it? I’m sure. … I was just willing to take all that personal heat for it because our kids deserve more. Somebody’s got to fight that battle. I’ve not been afraid to do it.
Q: That seems sort of like a natural segue to the second part of the question, (about) the challenges, (and) what is left unfinished. …
A: I think that what must absolutely continue is the engagement of principals and teachers in our educational improvement journey. It needs to do more than just continue. We need to expand it. …
Q: I did want to ask a specific question about those principal surveys (conducted by the Education Institute of Hawaii). They did one last year and they did one this year and both times they had a pretty high response rate. … (Some principals) cited a climate of fear, of retaliation within the DOE. They said that they didn’t feel as though they could speak up. Can you address that? Is that a legitimate fear? What did you think when you saw that finding?
A: It was quite painful to hear that feedback. I’m someone who has prided myself on that you can tell me pretty much anything. I’m definitely from the school of thought that if it’s on your mind, you should say it. Because if we’re not aware of it, then how are we ever going to address it or deal with it? … I’m not the kind of person who is retaliatory or who is going to do that kind of stuff to somebody. I just don’t roll like that. So it was very painful to hear that folks perceived it that way.
Q: Looking ahead: it says in the press release announcing your departure that Hawaii’s public schools have seen measurable improvement in student achievement, behavior, absenteeism, graduation rates, college-going rates and unprecedented gains on the National Assessment of Educational Progress during your tenure. … Are you confident that the momentum will continue?
A: We have good people in this department and many are achieving success, moving the needle for kids. I hope that raising the bar and getting better results for kids will continue to drive people’s efforts.
Q: What was appealing to you about this new job? It’s a big move (to Washington, D.C.). …
A: (The U.S. DOE and secretary of education) … are very interested in finding out ways to be a better partner with states and districts. One of the things that I think I can add, because of our unique school system here, is to bring a state and district perspective to their high-level conversations. …
Q: Can you just talk a little bit about standardized testing, … the whole "testing culture" debate?
A: I’m glad you asked, because people tend to think that everything is about testing and it’s not. People who know me hear me say all the time: We all know that testing is only one measurement of performance. You didn’t let me finish about the third and fourth and fifth thing that I’m really proud of, but the third thing that I’m really proud of is that we now have an accountability system that measures multiple things that support learning for kids, not just a standardized test score. …
Q: What are they?
A: Schools are assessed on growth, achievement, readiness and gap (between high-needs and non-high-needs students) — four big areas that include real-life measures, like whether they went to college or not, whether they need remediation or not, whether the kids are coming to school or not, how they’re doing on both achievement and growth. So I agree, 100 percent, that assessment is only one measure. It doesn’t tell you everything. But it does tell you where you stand against other kids in similar situations, whether it be by grade or age or whatever across the country. … There is a definite and significant place in our system for standardized testing, but there are other measures that are equally important that need to be assessed. What we’ve tried to do in this time is have multiple measures for things that matter.
Q: That’s not just for students?
A: Right. For assessing schools: multiple measures. Assessing teacher and principal performance: multiple measures. For assessing school system performance: multiple measures. Our strategic plan: multiple measures. You need a rounded picture to tell how healthy is a school or student or teacher or principal or school system or superintendent or deputy. … Standardized testing is important, but it is not, like some folks try to make it, this huge thing that is taking over America’s classrooms. That’s not happening here. …
Q: So that’s three. What were four and five? (Laughter)
A: I think four is: When you … create the kind of alignment that we’ve created and you have multiple measures like we do now, you get to identify movers and shakers … Now we can identify schools that have higher growth than others, or higher achievement than others. Schools that send more kids to college.
I’m very, very, very proud of and in awe of the heroic efforts of people in schools, who have really stuck their necks out, man. There are principals out there who are driving their schools hard to get results. There are teachers out there who don’t settle for anything less for kids. They might rub other faculty members the wrong way a little bit, or even rub parents the wrong way a little bit, because they are really trying to get every kid to stretch to their highest potential — which is not comfortable. It’s easy to just tread water and get by.
Q: A culture of low expectations is a form of racism.
A: Absolutely. This is absolutely a social justice issue in Hawaii. … As a career person in the Department of Education, it’s very emotional to see and feel the effort of people to really do more for kids. And if you look at it, all of us look beat up and tired. We’ve worked really hard and we’ve all taken our fair share of heat for the work.
But that’s what the quality people in the Department of Education are about. They’re willing to put the kids’ interests ahead of their own.
