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Thank you Michael. Oh, I like your shirt too!
These telescopes are commercial operations on conservation zoned land. They charge thousands of dollars a night for usage while paying only one dollar a year in lease rent. The definition of conservation is the action of conserving something, in particular.•preservation, protection, or restoration of the natural environment, natural ecosystems, vegetation, and wildlife. Someone at UH needs to update their dictionary. These outdated land based toys will never take better pictures of deep space all year round than the Hubble.
So? Are you saying that the lease rent should be thousands of dollars? This telescope will expand our knowledge of the Universe. It should be built. It is an appropriate use of conservation land.
Good commentary Michael.
Can you imagine the cost to build and maintain it?
Aloha, eleu808. I am curious why you think the telescopes are commercial entities that charge for telescope time and that Hubble will always surpass land-based telescopes. Can you tell me the source of your information?
My understanding is that the telescopes are funded by consortiums of universities and nations. They do not sell telescope time. Yes, the telescopes have a $1/year lease agreement. That was put forward as business incentive to get astronomy to come to the Big Island and help Hilo recover from the devastation of the 1960 tsunami. What often goes unmentioned is that the telescopes donate 10% of their viewing time to UH. That time is valued in the millions. Another thing that goes unmentioned is that the observatories pay to maintain the road to the summit and that they also support the Visitor Information Station – two resources that are free and available to the public.
Regarding your comment about the Hubble, the size of a telescope’s mirror is one of its top assets. The Hubble’s primary mirror is only 2.4m wide. At 30m wide, the TMT can collect much more light that Hubble could. And you don’t have to launch a space mission to maintain it.
Science is a stickler for FACTS. So, let’s review the facts. Mauna Kea was “as is” long before western commerce and science appeared. Mauna Kea was long a native kapu mountain protected by society’s spiritual guardians such as Poliahu, Pele, etc., no different than other cultures’ angels, archangels, gods, and similar. Science merely investigates, and so, must accept the existence of the phenomena it can’t explain. The value added use of scientific discovery, or explanations, is merely commercializing science, that otherwise, is merely purity of investigation. Yet, many scientists do not accept the existence of spirit despite factual phenomena evidencing its existence and impact in this 3rd dimension. Conveniently then, the “as is” of Mauna Kea is disregarded as a spiritual mountain protected against any mainstream residence and commerce since ancient times. The issue is NOT the commercial prospect for science and education. The issue is the dumbing down of sacred culture and spiritual traditions defining Mauna Kea LONG BEFORE WESTERN PROPOSITION. The modern issue is COMMERCE vs. NATIVE CULTURE — grants, profits, and jobs vs. native culture. Education for youth, cosmos investigation, etc. are merely misdirections aimed at ignorant and insipid audiences. It’s Main Street marketing. So, let’s extend the reasoning of the author here. Mauna Kea ‘as is” DIRECTLY provides for the spiritual health and well being of human existence, the metaphysics that are conveniently labeled here as “dogma.” So let’s take our masses of depressed, socially disengaged, clinically incarcerated, manic and similar up Mauna Kea and lecture on Copernicus, Einstein, relativity and global positioning. How is that for context? If we are going to talk apples, let’s not talk oranges.
You talk about “as is”. How it was. Poliahu, Pele, etc. I assume, then, that you hold on to those “before western commerce and science” ideas as what we should be adhering to, even now in the 21st century. You must certainly be one of those, therefore, who do not own or use or rely upon computers, mobile phones (or ANY phones), motor vehicles, anything that uses electricity, televisions, modern medicines, x-rays, aircraft, or anything that did not exist in “before western commerce and science” times.
Again here, modern conveniences have nothing to do with the issue of whether any person values their cultural traditions, especially ABORIGINAL culture of the land. For example, since when does a need for a computer have anything to do with one’s choice to practice Christianity? Since when does teaching science have anything to do with one’s choice to go to church or partake in eucharist? It’s best you get competent on debate.
Forget it! TMT has already decided to move on before it wastes more time and money on this backwater State.
And if and when that actually happens, then at least that would be a scientific fact.
Albeit a sad and misinformed one. Superstition and myth are alive and well in Hawai`i nei. Aue!