Fact Check: Claims in the VP debate
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Republican vice-presidential nominee Gov. Mike Pence and Democratic vice-presidential nominee Sen. Tim Kaine, right, walked past each other after the vice-presidential debate at Longwood University in Farmville, Va. on Tuesday.
WASHINGTON » Not all the claims in the vice presidential debate stand up to scrutiny. A look at some of them and how they compare with the facts:
REPUBLICAN MIKE PENCE: “The fact that under this past administration, we’ve almost doubled the national debt is atrocious. … Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want more of the same.”
THE FACTS: As a share of the total U.S. economy, the national debt has gone up 35 percent; not a doubling.
Still, the debt has ballooned to $19.6 trillion. This largely reflected efforts by the Obama administration to stop the Great Recession.
Would Clinton similarly increase the debt? Not according to an analysis by the independent Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.
The Clinton plan with its tax increases would increase the gross debt — both privately and publicly held— by $450 billion over 10 years. Mind you, that is on top of an $8.8 trillion increase already projected by the government under current law.
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As for Donald Trump, the committee says his tax-cut-heavy plan would increase the gross debt by $4.3 trillion —nearly 10 times more than Clinton’s plan would do.
DEMOCRAT TIM KAINE on immigration: “Our plan is like Ronald Reagan in 1986.”
THE FACTS: There are similarities for sure but Clinton’s proposal would have far broader impact. The estimated population of immigrants living in the United States illegally is now roughly 11 million. In 1986, the so-called Reagan amnesty bill legalized the immigration status of about 3 million people.
There are also some notable differences between the law signed by President Reagan and Clinton’s proposal. The Reagan law included a provision that made it illegal for businesses to hire workers who don’t have the legal right to work in the United States. Enforcement of that provision has never fully materialized. Clinton’s plan as laid out in her campaign website does not address workforce enforcement.
KAINE on Trump’s tax plan: “The second component of the plan is massive tax breaks for the very top, trillions of dollars of tax breaks for people just like Donald Trump. The problem with this … is that’s exactly what we did 10 years ago and it put the economy into the deepest recession — the deepest recession since the 1930s.”
THE FACTS: There’s no serious argument that the Bush tax cuts brought on the recession. The recession was driven largely by the bust in the housing market. Critics might blame lax oversight by the Bush administration of the financial markets and of lenders, but the tax cuts were not a major factor in the recession. It’s true they failed to spur significant income growth before the housing bubble popped nearly a decade ago, leading to a wave of foreclosures as the economy plunged into its deepest downturn since the Great Depression. But President Barack Obama chose to extend some of them in order to deal with the recession and its aftermath.
DEMOCRAT TIM KAINE, on fighting the Islamic State: “Donald Trump doesn’t have a plan.”
THE FACTS: Clinton also doesn’t have a plan that is materially different than what President Barack Obama is already doing.
She’s described a three-part strategy that involves crushing IS “on its home turf” in the Middle East, disrupting its infrastructure on the ground and online, and protecting America and its allies. All are current elements of the Obama administration’s strategy, so it’s not clear what would change or if she would accelerate any portions of it.
It’s also the case that Trump has not laid out a clear plan, though he claims to have a “secret” one that he won’t detail.
PENCE: “The Trump Foundation is a private family foundation. They give virtually every cent in the Trump Foundation to charitable causes. Less than 10 cents on the dollar in the Clinton Foundation has gone to charitable causes.”
THE FACTS: Rather than send money to other charities, the Clinton Foundation tends to spend its money on its own charitable programs. Pence’s claim ignores these internal initiatives, overlooking the Clinton Foundation’s work on African farming, climate change and AIDS treatment. Many non-profits spend the bulk of their charitable money on their own efforts rather than on outside charitable groups.
As for Trump’s foundation, multiple questions have been raised about its namesake’s generosity.
Money has been used to buy paintings of Trump and a signed football helmet that belonged to Tim Tebow. Money from the foundation has also helped settle legal cases against Trump’s for-profit businesses, according to The Washington Post. Trump even paid the IRS a $2,500 penalty this year after it was uncovered that the foundation broke tax laws by giving a political contribution to Florida’s attorney general.
PENCE, calling Clinton the “architect of the Obama administration’s foreign policy,” says the crisis in Syria was the result of a “failed and weak foreign policy that Hillary Clinton helped lead.”
THE FACTS: Clinton, as secretary of state, actually pushed for increased U.S. intervention after Syrian President Bashar Assad used chemical weapons against rebels. But Obama is the commander in chief and nothing has swayed him thus far. Whatever her failings might be on foreign policy, it’s a stretch to accuse her of helping to lead a weak policy on Syria.
PENCE: “Hillary Clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information on it about drone strikes. Emails from the president of the United States of America were on there, her private server was subject to being hacked by foreign …”
KAINE: “A Republican FBI director did an investigation and concluded … there was no reasonable prosecutor who would take it further.”
THE FACTS: Both are right, but they left out key details. Of 30,000 emails examined from Clinton’s private server, more than 2,000 did contain some classified information. But nearly all were designated classified long after they were either sent or received by Clinton. FBI Director James Comey also said the FBI found that Clinton’s server was vulnerable to hacking by foreign powers but found no evidence that her system was breached.
Comey indeed concluded that no reasonable prosecutor would have recommended that Clinton or others face prosecution in the email probe. As for his being a “Republican FBI director,” he was a Republican for most of his adult life, but says he’s no longer registered with the party.
PENCE: “We’ve seen an economy stifled by more taxes, more regulation, a war on coal.”
THE FACTS: The coal industry’s woes don’t come solely from onerous federal regulations. Pence omitted the effects of steep competition from cheap natural gas.
A string of major coal companies have filed for bankruptcy in recent years, including Arch Coal, Alpha Natural Resources and Peabody Energy. Layoffs and cutbacks have spread economic suffering through coal country in the Appalachians and Wyoming’s Powder River Basin. By contrast, these are boom times for natural gas extraction, mostly due to hydraulic fracturing, or fracking.
Still, the Obama administration has implemented rules that aren’t making the coal industry’s life any easier. Obama last year imposed a rule requiring coal-fired power plants to cut their carbon emissions as part of his effort to combat climate change. The rule has been suspended pending a legal challenge. Obama also has halted new coal leases on federal lands until it completes a comprehensive review.
PENCE, saying he’s proud that “the state of Indiana has balanced budgets.”
THE FACTS: True, but that’s not exactly to his credit as governor of Indiana. A balanced budget is required by law, as it is in every state except Vermont.
Associated Press writers Josh Boak, Deb Riechmann, Stephen Braun, Matthew Daly and Alicia A. Caldwell contributed to this report.
61 responses to “Fact Check: Claims in the VP debate”
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Here’s a fact: Calif. is the 1st State to petition ObamaCare(ACA)for illegal migrants! Where’s American Citizens 1st? aren’t there homeless US Citizens in Cali? Aren’t there people in poverty in Cali? Are you fine paying State and Fed. taxes to care for “illegal” migrants before your own US Citizens? Tell me, which foreign Country supports “legal” US Citizen Ex-pat with their countries tax money? There maybe foreign countries that do so in dire situations like the US would do but to outright support “illegal” migrants only entices them to cross the border illegally that takes away US citizens jobs
I’ve been taught by my naturalized US Citizen parents that Democrats are for minorities but with what Calif. is doing for “illegal” migrants is working against the minorities that are US Citizens. They offer illegal migrants services that takes away from US Citizens, what’s so hard to understand what’s going on here? You deprive US minorities of better services to handout to “illegal” migrants, you encourage migrants to “illegally” migrate to the US. The Democrats wants no borders, even I a Joe6Pack can figure that out.
The middle class worker may pay more for ACA, the poor don’t care because they get subsidized for the service if needed, the rich can afford it! The working middle class group uses more of it income to support the US citizen that can’t afford the plan and now Calif. wants to burden their State middle class workers more for “illegal” migrants? INSANITY!
It might help if you would stop lying.
The request was made with the specific provision that there would be no subsidy whatever. Only that the person could buy into the insurance pool.
Can you ever write truthful things?
heyyy Federal Judge klastri appointed by GW Bush as you claimed…how you doing?
btw…did you see Bubba call out Obamacare as CRAZY? That in itself is an great GOP ad!! lol
Now you called Obamacare O’s greatest achievement..O’s SIGNATURE Legacy…so how would you respond to Bubba?
Pocho and Keoni, isn’t Klastri’s position correct?
Keoni, I don’t think Klastri’s comment is related to the success or failure of the program, just that Pocho’s claim is misstated. Instead of some random Trump type insult and deflection, would you please address the point?
I’m man enough to admit my jumping to conclusions only reading the headlines. Something klastri will never do, but on 2nd thought he may think he’s always correct. lol
on 2nd thought. Now, I can brainstorm where this will benefit the sickly Illegal migrant that can afford the premiums. On the other hand I could surmise illegal migrants not wanting to join the ACA, why should they if they are young and not sickly! KLASTRI if passing this bill, would Illegal migrants be subject to mandatory participation if they can afford it?
Klastri, illegal immigrants do take jobs from citizens, and lower wages as well. Illegal immigrants include gang members and criminals that cause havoc, especially in the border states. That’s fact.
advertiser1…this is a private discussion…MYOB.
From what I have read, it is a little more complicated.
Medical is the California medical care for low income, disabled, etc. Californians.
It is jointly paid for by the federal and state governments.
California apparently already has the authority to enroll illegals, as per: (LA Times)
“And Brown signed a bill allowing 170,000 immigrants in the country illegally and under the age of 19 to sign up for Medi-Cal.”
Many illegals are already being paid for, perhaps even the majority.
So it may be correct to say there will be no subsidies via the pool, the objection to public financing of health care for illegals is also justified, since it is being done through Medical.
It is my understanding that some who do come into the pool and need subsidies are simply enrolled under Medical, so they are being subsidized through the back door. Allowing poor illegals to do this would result in subsidies in the same way, although it appears they can get already this without going through ACA.
Pence cleverly ran away from Trump. He did this to protect his own reputation in case Trump loses. Which he likely will. I find Pence an irritating liar who runs away from his own dreadful record.
HiLIARy is going to give Kaine a spanking for acting like a spoiled child and looking like a fool. He was shaking in his boots and appeared very frightened. I don’t blame him after viewing the Clinton hit list.
Ah, and once again you show why you only reached Sarge…
You also forgot his “22” IQ.
Kaine scares me. Seems like he’s all there in mind but… and the smile. SCARY stuff.
Allie, how do you know if Pence has a dreadful record? Is Hillary’s record dreadful as well? Or worse?
“I find Pence an irritating liar who runs away from his own dreadful record”
Whoa!
You must feel very threatened.
What jobs are illegal aliens taking from US citizens, exactly? Could it be upper management, white collar jobs, or more likely crop pickers, yard workers, and construction jobs that US citizens don’t want, or refuse, to do?
This is some fact with much biased interpretation of the facts. Has the deficit doubled, well as a share of the US economy almost, but it is credited to Obama trying to stop the great recession! Really, so the ACA was to stop the great recession? This writer can argue almost anything with that defense. Again, not a good fact piece but rather a pro-Hillary piece.
umm sounds like you don’t know the difference between the national debt and the budget deficit. Under Obama the budget deficit has gone from over a trillion dollars to less than half of that. Of course the public deficit will increase when the country continues to have budget deficits. Just remember it has been over 50 years since a republican president submitted a balanced budget to congress.
who cares what is what, you cut the budget in 1/2 or to zero and the National debt doubles doesn’t balance the books! It’s like having $1000 total in all your back accounts combined and having a Credit card debit that’s $10,000. Come on now! “smh”
Tell me of one schooled Tax account less a CPA that wouldn’t use the tax codes to their advantage? You Democrats are a JOKE! hahahahaha, tell me you pay more taxes than you should and I’ll call you not to bright. Even them online tax return programs will find you deductions!
It is funny when you on the wacko right criticize Obama for doubling the national debt. The national debt went up primarily because of the stupid polices of your hero, G W Bush. Some day, you republicans will realize that Voodoo just does not work. Now repeat after me, Cutting revenue and increasing wasteful expenses will not balance the budget. Also would you on the right favor continuing restrictions on benefits for our Vets? Just love how you on the right “support our troops” until they get injured.
Pocho, I don’t criticize the Donald for using every deduction to lessen his taxes. I criticize him for running up a business loss of almost a billion dollars. Obviously this is a man who cannot budget. Would not want him running the United Stats. Probably would make GW look like a genius.
It’s different with govt. It’s also an asset owned largely by investors in our country. It’s money we owe to ourselves.
What’s more important is that the money has largely been used for entitlements and not spent frivlously.
Mr. Shoe When you suffer more under the democrats, don’t come here asking for help. I know you won’t to brained washed to accept the truth. Maybe you will understand what getting the boot is. LOL
You forget I was here 16 years ago when a republican president and congress were set to take over. Did you forget then? The government had a surplus and while the economy was slowing down was still relatively good. Then GW and republican hoods came in and 8 years later we were in the worst economic downturn since the great depression. Way to go Republicans. Why anyone would give any credibility to such a bankrupt party is beyond me.
Paul Ryan has been lying about the economy for years…
Kaine is Crooked Hilliary in a suit.
Pence kicked Kaine’s okole…PERIOD!
Pence did a good job lying. He is just bad for the country. We don’t need big government running people’s lives. Try running your own life for a change. Why do you need government to tell you how to act?
I hope you see the new TV commercial running that shows Pence lying about Trump not saying something, than immediately cuts to Trump saying the thing that Pence had just lied about. Goes on for 30 seconds. It’s a great commercial.
heyyy Federal Judge klastri appointed by GW Bush as you claimed…how you doing?
btw…did you see Bubba call out Obamacare as CRAZY? That in itself is an great GOP ad!! lol
Now you called Obamacare O’s greatest achievement..O’s SIGNATURE Legacy…so how would you respond to Bubba?
Donald Trump’s strategy in this campaign has been fairly clear from the beginning: Drive up Republican support among white voters in order to compensate for the GOP’s shrinking share among the growing nonwhite portion of the electorate. And Trump has succeeded in overperforming among a certain slice of white voters, those without a college degree. But overall, the strategy isn’t working. Trump has a smaller lead among white voters than Mitt Romney did in 2012, and Trump’s margin seems to be falling from where it was when the general election began.
Four years ago, Romney beat President Obama among white voters by 17 percentage points, according to pre-election polls. That was the largest winning margin among white voters for any losing presidential candidate since at least 1948. Of course, even if Trump did just as well as Romney did, it would help him less, given that the 2016 electorate will probably be more diverse that 2012’s. And to win — even if the electorate remained as white as it was four years ago — Trump would need a margin of 22 percentage points or more among white voters.
But Trump isn’t even doing as well as Romney. Trump is winning white voters by just 13 percentage points, according to an average of the last five live-interviewer national surveys.1 He doesn’t reach the magic 22 percentage point margin in a single one of these polls.
Aloha no e malama pono!!!!!!
Buahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahhhahahah.
Why is Trump still winning our poll? White men and uncertain voters…http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-clinton-trump-polls-20161005-snap-story.html
If you studied polls, the LA Times is not just an outlier, but wildly inaccurate. For that reason, most networks do even include it in their analysis of national polls.
Again, do your homework and stop just reading from entities that may support your own outlook–a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Eric Trump OWNS CNN Panel After VP Debate…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqfTX4h3a_M
His numbers are in free fall now. Now to about an 18% chance of winning. His campaign is in shambles.
There’s a great new TV commercial out today that shows Mr. Pence (during the debate) denying that Trump said something, with the next frame showing Trump saying what Mr. Pence had just lied about. It runs from one lie to the next. Very effective ad!
Good news this morning is that Mr. Trump’s support among educated white men is evaporating almost as fast as his support from educated white women. Mr. Trump is left with the white supremacist, racist imbecile vote however. He has those groups thoroughly locked up.
Federal Judge klastri appointed by GW Bush as you claimed…did you see Bubba call out Obamacare as CRAZY? That in itself is an great GOP ad!! lol
Now you called Obamacare O’s greatest achievement..O’s SIGNATURE Legacy…so how would you respond to Bubba?
You cannot stop lying. I never wrote that I was a judge because I wasn’t. You continuously lie by confusing me with other people with different names.
You lie in every single comment. You appear pathologically unable to be truthful.
There is nothing worse than a serial liar. Nothing.
K___N2, under the disguise Kurt on Kauai, you stated you were appointed to the Federal Bench by none other than President GW Bush.
Nobody makes statements like you do…no one…you are unique…not in a good way.
“There is nothing worse than a serial liar. Nothing.” That’s you..whoever you want to be on the internet.
Keonigohan – A “disguise?” I tried to “disguise” myself?
You are every bit as ill as Mr. Trump. And every bit the liar.
You must type from your basement? lol
You are one sick joke whoever you are and I’ll call you out every time you “reply” to my thread. Remember, you “reply” to me first on the K__N2 website..and I will wholeheartedly reciprocate.
Question, what is K N2?
advertiser1…think harder.
We need a debate where neither candidate is allowed to criticize the other. The discussion should be limited to the issues, their interpretation of the facts, and their solutions.
The moderator should fact check during each candidates discussion of the facts.
This format would serve the people who are sick and tired of the bashing. And then we could finally actually hear someone talking without being interrupted.
The surrogates of either candidate should realize how sick and tired people are of hearing them bash each other every single day. But it seems this is the way we have to accept politics, or do we? If you don’t aspire to higher political goals, you do get more of the same.
Pence had trouble when he went to the restroom after the debate. He couldn’t get close enough to the urinal because his nose was too long.
Why are you hanging out in the Men’s rest room?
lol ^5 and Pence’s nose is a lot bigger than tanuki’s junk I bet!
Politicians lie??? Really???
Pence repeatedly claimed that Trump had not said things that he actually said. When video of Trump’s statements has been replayed hundreds of times, you have to be delusional to think that you can reject that evidence and get away with it, but then anything is possible in the fact-free Republican bubble where facts and fantasies are fungible.
He’s Donald’s lap dog. I think Donald had his doubts about Pence, but this debate shows that Pence’s good at apologising for Danald.
The “fact” of the matter is the VP debate will be quickly forgotten. Trump needs to go on the offensive now and continue to point out the lack of accomplishment of his opponent. Despite being at or near the top of the government totem pole for 3 decades there isn’t one thing she can point to to burnish her resume. On the other hand there is scandal after scandal. Whitewater, cattle futures, Vince Foster, Travelgate, abuse of her secret service agents, destroying the lives of Bill’s many bedroom victims…More recently the destruction of e-mail, using a private server to traffic classified information, selling government influence, and siphoning off money intended for victims of the Haiti earthquake to enrich herself. And most disturbing is the ongoing coverup via the FBI and DoJ by the Barry Hussein administration to protect Waldo and by extension himself.
It’s usually uncouth to respond to your own post but I had to make an exception this time. Waldo’s former boss and his lack of accomplishments should also be highlighted. Little Barry Hussein’s Obamacare and the horrors it has brought are just beginning to be felt, although you would never know it if you only read the NYT and SA. Also, I guess if you are good with adult men using female restrooms, the Iranian mullahs on the fast track to going nuke, the downward spiral of the middle east and the rise of ISIS, the deconstruction of a once great military, the decay of race relations, the murder zones that are our inner cities, the war on law enforcement, the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands, the use of the EPA and IRS to bully Barry’s opponents, 93 million adults out of the workforce and a general uneasiness among the population then Barry Hussein has accomplished quite a bit.
Dishonest Donald’s blind mice cannot deal with the facts. They also cannot deal with the fact that he is losing big time to a woman. Neither can the Dishonest one, that bothers him so much that he keeps waking up and going to the bathroom late at night where he can tweet in privacy from his porcelain throne.
Not porcelain … it’s gold.
This today from conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin, speaking about Trump’s loathsome comments on PTSD:
To be certain, saying Trump is ignorant on this or dozens of other matters is not to excuse his behavior. To the contrary, he has willfully refused to learn about the world, about how Americans live and about virtually every area of policy. He dismisses a mountain of fact-checking, refusing to align his words with reality. He refuses to acknowledge error no matter how ludicrous his error. (When snared, he simply insists he is right or blames everything from a bad ear piece to media taking his comments “out of context.”) This is not brilliant strategy; it is someone trying to cover up his own ignorance.
How could you not know that PTSD is a mental health issue? How could you not know that making it an issue of character is tremendously damaging? Well, if you are a narcissist who doesn’t read and who — as he says — only works and plays golf, there are lots of things you don’t know. And if your ego is as big and your attention span is as brief as his, learning from others becomes impossible.
So yes, Trump is crude, mean and prejudiced — but most notably he is the least-informed candidate to run for the presidency in modern times. He likes to consult with himself, he told us about foreign policy. Unfortunately, he does not have a “very good brain” — he has an empty one with zero intellectual curiosity or capacity for learning. That alone should disqualify him from office.
Here’s the essence of the VP debate:
Kaine: “Six times tonight, I have said to Governor Pence: I can’t imagine how you can defend your running mate’s position on one issue after the next. And in all six cases, he’s refused to defend his running mate, and yet he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend.”
Great investigation…