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Letters to the Editor

For Monday, October 29, 2012


POSTED:



Millions of tourists will use rail transit

While listening to mayoral candidate and former Gov. Ben Cayetano in a radio interview, I heard him say that one reason rail isn't a viable option here is that it takes a population base of 2 million to successfully support a rail system. An article in the Star-Advertiser Money section said the state has a goal of 2 million Japanese arrivals per year by 2016. Add to that the number of mainland visitors and those from other international locations and it seems to me that the 2 million needed to support a rail system is more than tripled.

Probably a great number of them end up renting cars because there is no alternative means of public transportation to speak of. Certainly nothing to compare with public rail systems in Europe and Japan.

Art Ratcliffe
Haleiwa

City infrastructure already damaged

Why are Don Horner, the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation and the city so happy about a report that shows that rail will be taking a lion's share of city revenues into the future at the expense of most other city services ("Transit tax take to be 19% of city's collection," Star-Advertiser, Oct. 5)?

Think sewer, water, roads, parks, permitting and planning, police, fire and emergency services. The city is already short-staffed and under budgeted. How much worse can it get? Where does more money come from? Build more houses, bring in more people, raise property taxes to get more revenue? Our infrastructure is severely damaged. Our elected officials and candidates need to set out a real, honest plan for the future of our repairs and maintenance and ongoing support of our city services.

It stands to reason that TheBus uses a higher percentage of transit funds, since it services the entire island of Oahu, not just the 20 miles the rail is concerned with.

Andrea W. Bell
Kailua

Healthy lunches at school good start

Thank you for your article highlighting the improvements made in our school lunches ("School lunch 2012," Star-Advertiser, Oct. 17). Healthier foods in school will mean healthier kids. But school meals take us only part of the way as the rest of the foods consumed are at home and after school.

Less than 30 years ago, one in 10 U.S. children were obese or overweight. Today, one in three. Reversing this trend won't be easy, but healthier school meals are a start. The next step will be getting parents, grandparents and the entire ohana educated on the importance of healthier choices not only for the keikis but for themselves as well.

Continue to publish articles on this serious health issue that affects our entire society.

Theresa Wee
Waipahu

Watch out for voting machines

As I voted and had to scroll down on the electronic voting machine ballot to find Obama/Biden out of alphabetical order at the bottom, I wondered how accidental that well-publicized error really was?

It reminded me of Ohio, which the pundits say will determine the outcome of the presidential election. In 2004, that state had serious voting irregularities on the part of companies running the equipment that counted ballots. Those companies had financial and political ties to President George W. Bush supporters, and at the 11th hour there was a swing of 6 percent from John Kerry to Bush that contradicted exit poll numbers.

This year, the same firms are involved, and they have financial connections (including political donations) to Mitt Romney. Yet no conflict of interest has been publicly admitted. If Ohio's vote tallies suddenly swing toward the economic interests of the vote counters again this year, call the cops.

David Chappell
Kaneohe

Start new lottery to pay for schools

Per your article, "Wanted: More money for schools" (Star-Advertiser, Oct. 24). Let's go back to a lottery, with a difference. Have a weekly or monthly lottery with 40 percent of the revenues going to the schools, 10 percent for administration and 50 percent to winners.

However, instead of one winning number, draw six or even 10. That way, more people and families will win rather than just one person. The prize money could be divided evenly among the winners.

It would be a win-win situation with the schools getting more revenue and more individuals receiving prize money.

Toby Allen
Honolulu

Public restrooms need paper towels

With the recent outbreak of meningitis spreading death around the country, one cannot be too careful when it comes to our health.

On a recent emergency room visit to Kapiolani Hospital, filled with children coughing and wheezing, I was dismayed when I used the restroom, only to find out that I couldn't leave the bathroom without having to touch the doorknob, exposing me to countless germs.

The customer service director informs me that it did away with paper towels, because people would throw them down the toilet, clogging up the drain. The bathroom adjacent to the cafeteria, where patients and families share the same serving utensils, presented the same problem.

The bathroom at Queen's Hospital, near the admissions office, didn't have paper towels either. The public restroom at Ala Moana Shopping Center is situated in a way that there are no doors, eliminating the sanitation problem.

Paper towels should be mandatory in all public restrooms.

Charles Balcher
Waikiki

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E-mail: letters@staradvertiser.com
Fax: (808) 529-4750
Mail: Letters to the Editor, Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 7 Waterfront Plaza, 500 Ala Moana, Suite 210, Honolulu, HI 96813






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rsgea wrote:
IRT Andrea W. Bell's letter, in other words: FIRST THINGS FIRST

VOTE FOR BEN CAYETANO and SUPPORT HIS CAMPAIGN


on October 29,2012 | 02:26AM
rsgea wrote:
Ms. Bell is right on point when she wrote: "Think sewer, water, roads, parks, permitting and planning, police, fire and emergency services. The city is already short-staffed and under budgeted. How much worse can it get? Where does more money come from?

And add to her list trash pickup and disposal services and faciities, inhumane homeless policies and programs, and TheBus & Hand-van staffing, services, and mainternance


on October 29,2012 | 02:36AM
rsgea wrote:
And in answer to Ms. Bell's question of "Where does more money come from?"

REPLACE HONOLULU RAIL WITH BEN CAYETANO'S F.A.S.T. PLAN

The F.A.S.T. plan will do everything RAIL can do but for about 1/5th the cost. The money saved with the F.A.S.T. plan can be much better used taking care of sewer, water, roads, parks, permitting & planning, police, fire, emergency services, TheBus, Hand-van, trash pickup services, trash disposal facilities, and the homeless.

Ben Cayetano has his priorities right and will take care of FIRST THINGS FIRST.


on October 29,2012 | 02:47AM
OldDiver wrote:
This from the StarAdvertiser................Porter & Associates' forecast is that transportation services will need 19.1 percent of revenues from city general and highway funds in 2021, up from 11.1 percent in 2011. That's a peak figure: The share of revenues then will stabilize at an average of 17.5 percent through 2030. Taking the first point, the Porter study concludes that between 2011 and 2030, TheBus accounts for 67 percent of the operating cost, TheHandi-Van 15 percent and the rail 18 percent. So switching to a system that expands the driver-operated bus network, as former Gov. Ben Cayetano has proposed, is no real solution: It would still have a high operating cost while transporting far fewer people.
on October 29,2012 | 06:40AM
OldDiver wrote:
What antirailer's forget to mention is the all bus solution Ben Cayetano wants takes 22% of all city revenues opposed to the rail, bus option which takes 19%.
on October 29,2012 | 06:43AM
DPK wrote:
OD: what you forget to mention is that it will take $5-7 billion to get to an operational system with associated costs.
on October 29,2012 | 07:19AM
OldDiver wrote:
Of which 48% is paid for by Oahu taxpayers. 52% of the cost is coming from the federal government and tourist. Cayetano's $3 billion FAST proposal will have to be funded entirely by property taxes because it doesn't qualify for federal funding. Do the math.
on October 29,2012 | 08:34AM
hilocal wrote:
OldDiver says 52% of $5-7 billion will be from the fed govt? 50% of $5-7 billion is $2.5-3.5 billion. But only $1.55 billion is expected from the FTA.
on October 29,2012 | 09:08AM
OldDiver wrote:
hilocal, you forgot the GET tax is also being funded by tourist. And let's not forget the hundreds of millions already received from the feds.
on October 29,2012 | 11:39AM
Kuniarr wrote:
OldDiver, What's this baloney about 48% and 52%?
on October 29,2012 | 12:46PM
hybrid1 wrote:
FACT: Ben's FAST will require less (36) additional buses than rail (63). ............... RAIL WILL REQUIRE 63 MORE BUSES TO OPERATE. BRT REQUIRES 36 MORE BUSES.
on October 29,2012 | 08:10AM
OldDiver wrote:
Rail is move an equivalent of 100 buses per hour during rush hour. Ben's FAST system involve's just 36 express buses. Do the math.
on October 29,2012 | 08:32AM
DPK wrote:
OD; as pointed out, your math regarding the fed contribution is incorrect. By the way, have you seen the $1.5 billion yet? I haven't heard of it.
on October 29,2012 | 11:18AM
DPK wrote:
OD: perhaps you should review YOUR math. As pointed out by hilocal, your quote of 52% coming from the feds is erroneous. 52% of $5-7 billion is $2.5-3.5 billions. Of course, you are jumping to conclusions about the feds $1.5 billion contribution. I haven't seen it yet. Have you? You must have gone to the Grabauskas school of mathematics.
on October 29,2012 | 10:53AM
wondermn1 wrote:
The RUSTING RAIL WILL FAIL AND BEN CAYETANO WILL BE THE NEW MAYOR. GO BEN GOP THE PEOPLE OF hONOLULU ARE NOT STUPID ENOUGHT TO ELECT CALDWELL AND PRP
on October 30,2012 | 12:04AM
hilocal wrote:
OldDiver, I must have missed that 22% for the BRT option. Where did you find that?
on October 29,2012 | 09:03AM
loquaciousone wrote:
In Ripley's Believe it or Not.
on October 29,2012 | 03:03PM
dontbelieveinmyths wrote:
This comment has been deleted.
on October 29,2012 | 12:13PM
808behappy wrote:
The H3 serves a small fraction of the island, too. Some day as I'm driving home I would like to hear the traffic reporter on the radio say, "No problems going out to the West side" like they do almost every day for the Windward & Hawaii Kai side!
on October 29,2012 | 01:46PM
wondermn1 wrote:
The FAST program will be usefull to all areas of Oahu not the lousy 5- 6% who live close to RAIL STATIONS. The majority of the 5=6% are allready users of Hawaii's famous BUS sytem. Or at leasrt it was award winning untill our Mayor destroyed it. Go Ben Go
on October 30,2012 | 12:08AM
Kuniarr wrote:
What antirailers remember is that OldDiver makes up statistics of his own. OD, what's this baloney about 22%?
on October 29,2012 | 12:44PM
SomebodyElse wrote:
Yes, they should have made H3 larger, traffic is building. I don't think you'll ever hear "No problems going out to the west side" until they build a dedicated 4 lane highway that shoots to the West Side. One way in the afternoons. One way in the morning. I'm all for that, but not rail as it's proposed.
on October 29,2012 | 07:48PM
wondermn1 wrote:
OldDribble, thinks the RAIL is the holy grail but instead it will FAIL
on October 30,2012 | 12:09AM
hilocal wrote:
OldDiver, the presence of a driver on the bus helps make it much safer than a driverless rail car for the elderly, women, and children, especially at night. Being a bus driver is a decent, steady job for locals. It doesn't require importing workers with special skills that the rail does.
on October 29,2012 | 09:01AM
OldDiver wrote:
hilocal, there will be an attendant on each train.
on October 29,2012 | 11:39AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney, OldDiver. What's this baloney about there will be an attendant on each train?
on October 29,2012 | 12:51PM
polekasta wrote:
That is a flat out lie olddiver. Someone once asked if there is an emergency on the train, what can be done. The answer that was given was there was going to be a call button that would connect to the rail control center, where the proper emergency personal would be dispatched to meet the train at the next stop. There will be 1 attendant at each station only. Not one on each train.
on October 29,2012 | 12:57PM
localguy wrote:
An attendant on each train plus the driver. Two union people per train making how much money? We do not need anyone actually on the train, fully automated. Buy tickets from machine, get on train. Random check of passengers for tickets, fines for those who do not have. Unions are feather bedding this project with as many non essential jobs as they can at our expense. San Diego saw through this scam real quick, slapped it down immediately. Exactly why SD has an 80 plus % payback for rail operational cost. And what is our projected payback cost? Yes, way, way below that, meaning more taxpayer subsidy.
on October 29,2012 | 04:50PM
wondermn1 wrote:
OldDribble, if so he is probably going to be the only one on the cattle car after 10 am. and how in the heck does thaat get paid for another 75K per year job for a welfare recipient?
on October 30,2012 | 12:11AM
localguy wrote:
Old Dribler, you have to realize like we do the SA is bought and paid for by union bosses and bureaucrats. A true part of journalism is to show the facts, plain and simple, then let voters decide. In the case of rail, cub reporters are not telling the whole story, they can't, they are told by the union what to writer. Tax payers have to realize rail is beyond our financial means. Lets stick with the basic, core government services. Let a private company build rail at their expense.
on October 29,2012 | 04:47PM
ukuleleblue wrote:
Honolulu is behind the times and should have built the rail decades ago. TheBus has been great in the past providing award winning service and speedy one-seat commutes. Unfortunately express buses or bus rapid transit (BRT) cannot continue to be the answer. Times have changed as a result of skyrocketing population growth, traffic congestion and fuel prices in the past ten years. Operating an all bus system was acceptable in the past when individual express buses from distant neighborhoods could be run all the way to downtown at a frequent basis. However, this becomes a very cost-inefficient system requiring more fuel and more drivers. The express buses then have to eventually end up in traffic congestion with other vehicles. That is why just adding more buses into clogged roads is not a solution. Now we need to revamp the bus system and incorporate a more efficient multi-modal transportation system that utilizes a fast high capacity rail system as in most major cities all over the world. More neighborhood buses can be added to circulate much more frequently and shuttle to the high speed high capacity rail trunk line on its own right of way. There will be less waiting for the bus and after transferring to the nearest rail station riders will have a faster train ride and an improved elapsed time origin to destination for any rider. Instead of cutbacks, bus routes with smaller buses serving less busy areas can be added or restored and fed to the rail line. We need the planned Kapolei to Ala Moana rail line and will probably need extensions to Waikiki and UH-Manoa soon after. And the longer we delay, the more it will cost. Rail is the proven solution all over the world and it will work here. Don’t get fooled by the naysayers.
on October 29,2012 | 06:51AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
ukuleleblue wrote: "Instead of cutbacks, bus routes with smaller buses serving less busy areas can be added or restored and fed to the rail line."

I believe the letter you are responding to with your standard "Copy and Paste #2" is about how we are going to pay for all this.

Recently, our Mayor Carlisle and Transportation Director Wayne Yoshioka, in an effort to convince the FTA they can control bus finances cut bus services island wide because of a budget short of just three million dollars.

HART has plans to take more than two hundred million dollars from the bus system to spend on concrete to build rail. I think that is liable to cause more cutbacks in our bus system. Don't you?
on October 29,2012 | 07:42AM
DPK wrote:
UKBLU: you never answer the question regarding how much the proposed rail ticket will cost.
on October 29,2012 | 11:14AM
localguy wrote:
UKBLU can't answer because he is Grabby Boy. His union bosses just give him shibai to post. No thought of reply, just cut and paste. A check shows he makes the exact same posts over and over and over.
on October 29,2012 | 04:53PM
pcman wrote:
Rail is great when the population using it on a daily is in the millions. When it's 50-100,000 users per day, it becomes uneconomical. Another thing is where land is abundant, you have no probelm purchasing or leasing land for the rail line. Here in Hawaii, land shortage is a problem. It either costs too much or there's nothing to buy. I have lived in several cities that had rail and there were obsolete rail tracks all over town. When a line is no longer profitble, tracks are abandoned because there is no flexiblity to move them when required. When electricity is shut down for any reason, so goes the rail. If an accident occurs on or against the rail structure, the rail may be shut down as well.
on October 29,2012 | 08:58AM
Kuniarr wrote:
UB has been posting this exact same garbage over 10 times already
on October 29,2012 | 10:10AM
localguy wrote:
ukuleleblue - 345 time you have made this exact same post, nothing new, same ole same ole. Move along folks, just more UB shibai, his standard. Well, when your real name is Grabby Boy what do you expect.
on October 29,2012 | 04:52PM
wondermn1 wrote:
\ukuBS is a like most of the pro-railers who are afraid of the TAXPAYER MONIES DRYING UP THE WELFARE MONEY POT Go Ben Go .
on October 30,2012 | 12:13AM
soundofreason wrote:
Amen!!
on October 29,2012 | 07:16AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Art, I thought the purpose of the rail is to alleviate traffic? What does tourist have to do with our traffic woes?
on October 29,2012 | 02:47AM
loquaciousone wrote:
I know that this might come as a SHOCK to you Art but Honolulu was once home of the BEST bus system in the world. You know. It's those big large yellow things that make frequent stops and people get off and on everywhere with wheelchairs, strollers, bags of groceries from Chinatown, and other menial stuff like that.
on October 29,2012 | 02:53AM
wiliki wrote:
Being stuck for a couple of hours standing up in a bus during the rush hours might traumatize a tourist.
on October 29,2012 | 06:02AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Why would any tourist ride the bus, wiliki?
on October 29,2012 | 06:35AM
Malani wrote:
They ride the Bus because they know that they can get on and off the bus even when they go around the Island because it is cheaper. Further I have never seen a tourist standing. Toursit board the Bus at Ala Moana Center and therefore you will always see them sitting. One of them told me that they buy the special bus passes offered to tourist. Plus, there are bus transferes. Oh yeah, they like riding the Bus because they say they enjoyed seeing the beautiful beaches. Think the Rail would offer that? lol
on October 29,2012 | 08:04AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Unfortunately since the bus cuts you can see lots of tourists standing -- at the Wahiawa Transit Center waiting for their GASP.... transfer. Since the wait is usually around an hour, they have lots of time enjoying the scenic blank concrete walls. Oh did I hit on something here? Blank....is that why the City is willing to spend $200K dollar on artwork for those BLANK walls? The City wants to spend $200K for art but can't spend a penny for a public restroom. No wonder the trees and grass are so green around the WTC.
on October 29,2012 | 08:10AM
Poidogs wrote:
The 200K is a federally mandated component of design where a small percentage must be spent on art dedicated to the project.
on October 29,2012 | 10:29AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Poidogs, what's this baloney about "federally mandated component of design" you were talking about?
on October 29,2012 | 12:56PM
loquaciousone wrote:
You mean like the rail where there won't be any seats for the millions of tourists that are going to ride the seat-deprived rail? What are we going to do with 1 million traumatized tourists -- send them to Art's house?
on October 29,2012 | 07:12AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
One more week of this nonsense.
on October 29,2012 | 08:14AM
OldDiver wrote:
I'm afraid the nonsense won't stop until the rail project is completed.
on October 29,2012 | 08:36AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Why don't you guys take a month long visit to the Ural Mountains. I hear the snow is good this year and tourists are welcome. Don't forget your PUTIN GO TO HECK tee shirts. It gets you in free for the opening of Nancy Get Your Gun musical courtesy of the Taliban.
on October 29,2012 | 08:44AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
No OD, even after completion, the anti's would be named the ItoldyouSo's.
on October 29,2012 | 10:02AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
loquacious, we go to the Ural mountain, you go to the Uranus mountain. I heard the snow is brown this time of the year.
on October 29,2012 | 10:05AM
saveparadise wrote:
Sorry OD, We don't need rail and the money can be allocated for so many other benefits. People have to realize that it is like squandering away money. It is a poor investment with no returns. All the profits go to the developers.
on October 29,2012 | 10:22AM
wondermn1 wrote:
So it won't be long as Ben will be elected in this election and the RAIL and HART will be disassembled and the Money from Taxpayers will be wisely used for all people on Oahu.
on October 30,2012 | 07:45AM
DPK wrote:
wiliki: How many tourists are going to ride a train to Kapolei. If it went from Waikiki's hotel area to the airport, perhaps there would be a few. What a ridiculous arguement.
on October 29,2012 | 07:23AM
hybrid1 wrote:
FACT: With 64 seats, the two-car trains supposedly have room for 254 STANDING passengers.............But that’s at “crush capacity,” which is far more crowded than Americans are willing to accept....................... Assuming the city increases the seating to 76 seats, actual loads are likely to be limited to a total of about 150 to 200 people per train................... At a maximum of 20 trains an hour in each direction, the line will be able to move about 3,000 to 4,000 people per hour inbound in the morning and a similar number outbound in the afternoon.......................... By comparison, a highway lane can easily move 150 express or BRT buses per hour (a single lane can move 2,000 vehicles per hour), and at 100 seats per BRT bus that represents 15,000 people per hour, none of them having to stand.
on October 29,2012 | 08:13AM
hilocal wrote:
When I'm a tourist elsewhere, I avoid riding public transit during rush hour. When I find it unavoidable, I learn what the locals do daily.
on October 29,2012 | 09:14AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
When I'm a tourist elsewhere, I avoid riding public transit during rush hour. When I find it unavoidable, I learn what the locals do daily. They sit in gridlock in vehicular traffic.
on October 29,2012 | 10:09AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Obviously you have never been a tourist. All the tourist I see are sitting in Cholo's Margarita Bar enjoying a fish taco and a cold one. Sit in gridlock.......your fairy tales are going beyond the Twilight Zone.
on October 29,2012 | 12:30PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Really, Kuli you are actually telling us you are a resident of another island in the state of Hawaii other than Oahu for you to be a tourist in Oahu.
on October 29,2012 | 02:23PM
kahuku01 wrote:
Nanakuli: I find that the tourist learn very fast about the traffic problems on the freeways during morning and pau hana traffic. Many do rent cars and do their traveling during working hours and schedule themselves to be off the freeways during the peak traffic hours. It's just a matter of proper planning and avoiding the peak traffic time frame.
on October 29,2012 | 04:57PM
pakeheat wrote:
Even the Japanese tourists are getting smarter too, they know where to get bargains, like the swap meet and they can catch the bus to there and back to Waikiki, they won't pay for the higher cost to ride rail.
on October 29,2012 | 08:16PM
Ratrase wrote:
I thought the big yellow ones were for school kids.
on October 29,2012 | 07:54AM
rsgea wrote:
And Mr. Art Ratcliff's logic is flawed. The 2-million population needed to make Rail feasible is the resident population that lives, works and plays in the region Rail serves most of the 365 days of a year. The 2-million Japanese tourist come for an average of 4 or 5 days then leave. That's only 4 or 5 days of the 365 days in a year.

And in some cases, even a resident population of 2-million people doesn't work for rail. Look at Puerto Rico (PR), which like Oahu, is an island. And, PR's population is 2-million, which is more than twice that of Oahu. And yet, their rail system Tren Urbano is a dismal failure, achieving a daily ridership of only 40,000. That's only about 1/3 the 110,000 daily ridership projected.


on October 29,2012 | 03:01AM
rsgea wrote:
BTW, Mr. Ratcliffe, Rail will never get to Haleiwa. Because the topographical grade going up from the H1-H2 merge to Mililani is over 5%, railroad tracks are too slippery therefore rendering Rail "not viable:.

Buses easily negotiate the >5% grade and the BRT portion of Ben Cayetano's F.A.S.T. plan can serve Mililani, Wahiawa, Haleiwa and beyond. Unlike Rail, BRT can serve the entire island of Oahu.


on October 29,2012 | 03:13AM
Christopher_murp wrote:
The Bus does not easily navigate the ">5%" grade. Quite often, they are parked on the side of the freeway, broken down. Would love to see the stats for most frequent break down locations.
on October 29,2012 | 05:15AM
wiliki wrote:
Rail is elevated at the Merge and ground level at the nearby station at Leeward Community College. Why can't rail proceed from Leeward to Haleiwa? Or better yet since the Merge level is the same as Leeward why not just go directly up the slight grade from the Merge Station Level?
on October 29,2012 | 06:08AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Why rail when it would have been much better for everyone - business, the military, and commuters - to bring traffic relief on H1 following what other cities have been doing to eliminate the stop and go traffic congestion on the highway?
on October 29,2012 | 07:10AM
Ratrase wrote:
Which is what? How DO other cities "bring traffic relief" ?
on October 29,2012 | 07:49AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Ratrase go to any of the following links about traffic relief on I-285, H-26, I-5, I-405, I-4:

* http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/24/atlanta-turns-to-variable-speed-limit-system-to-relieve-highway-congestion/
* http://www.katu.com/news/Variable-speed-limit-signs-are-coming-to-Portland-136326623.html
* http://www.docstoc.com/docs/53240095/Variable-Speed-Limits-Aim-to-Relieve-I-4-Congestion
* http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/smarterhighways/
And there are lots of more links that shows how Traffic Relief was achieved in other countries such as the UK.
on October 29,2012 | 10:22AM
kahuku01 wrote:
wiliki: Why? Com-on! Don't even go there unless you can come up with $billions to build what your silly mind is thinking about. It's costing more than $6billion to build the mere 20 mile rail system and can you imagine what it would cost to build one to Haleiwa?
on October 29,2012 | 05:14PM
rsgea wrote:
There is bus services up the various heights in Honolulu, and those grades are much greater than 5% grades.

And if there's a breakdown of a bus, other vehicles, including backup buses, simple steer around them and continue the flow of traffic.

On the other hand, if there's a breakdown of a train, THE WHOLE SYSTEM COMES TO SCREECHING HALT! All trains behind that stalled one cannot steer around it. They start stacking up for who knows how long. If it's peak rush hour, there could be 10 trains stacked up within 1/2 hour. That's over 3,000 commuters stuck, with over 2,000 of them standing.
on October 29,2012 | 06:24AM
mudsprkt1 wrote:
Oh yea, you mean those little things that resemble a BUS, struggles on steep inclines, takes up both lanes, especially on corners and has you worried, wondering if the brakes will hold up? When these babies break down on inclines, especially on corners, which seems to be it's favorite spot, You try manuvering around them babies. By the way, do YOU use the bus system????
on October 29,2012 | 07:07AM
pakeheat wrote:
I do mudsprkt1, for almost 38 years, how about you?
on October 29,2012 | 07:48AM
Poidogs wrote:
That's bogus, it will not come to a halt. There will certainly be a slowdown, however, there are cross points every mile or so that the rail could use to go around a broken down train. I love this "standing" argument you guys try to ram down people's throats. You realize that people are standing on the bus today IN TRAFFIC? Max stand time 42 minutes, regardless of traffic. Max stand time on a bus? Who knows, could be up to 8 hours or more.
on October 29,2012 | 10:36AM
pakeheat wrote:
Poidogs, 8 hours or more? Are you nuts, where did you come up with this number? WoW! Ridiculous!
on October 29,2012 | 05:10PM
loquaciousone wrote:
Maybe you're passing the same bus or hallucinating. I have been riding the bus since 1994 and only once has my bus broken down to the point where it could not continue. That's approximately 15,000 bus rides with only one breakdown or .0000666666 percent.
on October 29,2012 | 07:08AM
Jonas wrote:
I have a friend that rides frequently in the town area - Punahou to Ala Moana, and he's been on 3 buses that broke down within the last 5 years. Maybe you've just been lucky. I don't think one person's data can accurately predict the breakdown rate for the whole system. Just being analytical here.
on October 29,2012 | 01:33PM
loquaciousone wrote:
Either that or your friend is that guy in the cartoons who walks around with the black rain cloud over him.
on October 29,2012 | 01:41PM
loquaciousone wrote:
By the way please describe what he looks like. The next time I see anyone fitting his description, I'll just wait for the next bus.
on October 29,2012 | 01:43PM
pakeheat wrote:
Did you know they have road supervisor's that can receive calls from the broken down bus and relay a message to get another bus running to pick up that load of passengers?
on October 29,2012 | 08:19PM
Kuniarr wrote:
What's this baloney about the bus not easily navigate the ">5%" grade? And this baloney "quite often, they are parked on the side of the freeway, broken down"?
on October 29,2012 | 07:14AM
mudsprkt1 wrote:
We don't have traffic problems here in Central Oahu like the West Side were it is needed the most. And you think the Buses don't have problems climbing that grade? They are designed to run on level terrain where it can SMOKE us out, slow traffic to a crawl with no where to go because there no lanes for more BUSES>>>>>>>
on October 29,2012 | 06:59AM
pakeheat wrote:
Hey mudsprkt1, is the H1 steep? What smoke are you talking about, the tourist buses, and did you ever mentioned hybrid buses mudsprkt1? Maybe there is something you smoking while you are driving to work, are you planning to use rail on a daily basis?
on October 29,2012 | 07:52AM
Ratrase wrote:
It takes over two hours on a bus to get downtown from the north shore.
on October 29,2012 | 07:41AM
Malani wrote:
The Rail will not to to Kahuku, Haleiwa, Waihiwa, etc etc.
on October 29,2012 | 08:15AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Ratrase wrote: "It takes over two hours on a bus to get downtown from the north shore."

How long will that trip take on the Ho'opili to Ala Moana Mall 20 stops in 20 miles $5billion express?
on October 29,2012 | 08:47AM
pakeheat wrote:
wiliki predicts it takes approximately 37 minutes or so from Kapolei to Ala Moana Shopping Center, yeah right! I guess with the average speed of 27mph and about a minute of picking up and dropping off passengers at each station, it would take longer than that, rail ain't going to be that much better for 5 billion plus. wiliki once said it actually takes 10 seconds to reach each stop, LOL.
on October 29,2012 | 08:35PM
hilocal wrote:
Ratrase, point-to-point super express buses will reduce that time to 1-1.5 hours by eliminating stops in between like Wahiawa, Mililani, etc.
on October 29,2012 | 09:25AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
FAST is going down super fast! After the PowerPoint presentation, big turn around in polls.
on October 29,2012 | 10:14AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Cayetano did not elaborate on Traffic Management which actually would bring to Honolulu a system that has been successful in bringing Traffic Relief like on H-26 (comparable to H-1), I-5, I-405, I-4, I-285 etc.

By focusing on BRT instead of NO MORE SITTING FOR HOURS IN TRAFFIC ON H-1, Cayetano fell directly into a BRT vs. Rail battle instead of Traffic Relief vs. Rail battle.
on October 29,2012 | 02:28PM
Kuniarr wrote:
To go to downtown from the North Shore, one has to go to Kapolei trains station.. And what you do not know is that by 2025 there will already be 3 projects of the State that with the AM contra-flow Zipper would make taking the Bus Express from Kapolei virtually traffic free as well as traffic-signal free and a lot much faster than taking the slow moving train.


on October 29,2012 | 10:26AM
pakeheat wrote:
Hey Ratrase, and what bus is that? The Express bus? Do you have any idea if you had to drive to the North Shore how long would that take about an hour, compared to riding the bus? You might be getting their faster but cars don't need to pick up and drop off passengers at the bust stops, so it's understandable that the bus takes that long.
on October 29,2012 | 08:25PM
WizardOfMoa wrote:
rsgea, ditto on both of your above posts - and if Mr. Ratcliffe doesn't get it he will never do.
on October 29,2012 | 09:37AM
Ratrase wrote:
The ridership in Phoenix surpasses the projected figure; where 300% of the riders are using the rail system, which " they " said nobody would use.
on October 29,2012 | 07:58AM
hilocal wrote:
Ratrase, doesn't Phoenix have a light rail, which is 1/10 to 1/5 the cost of heavy rail?
on October 29,2012 | 09:26AM
Poidogs wrote:
Yes, but 100s of cars have run into the system since it's been introduced. At-grade light rail would be a disaster in this city.
on October 29,2012 | 10:47AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Poidogs, what's this baloney about 100's of cars have run into the system since its been introduced? Why do you make up stories just to make rail look good?
on October 29,2012 | 01:16PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Ratrase,, what's this baloney about 300%?
on October 29,2012 | 01:12PM
Jonas wrote:
Yeah, same thing when BART came along - a lot of opposition, but once established - a lot of riders. I think in general the people who are most outspoken are the critics. The ones who actually support it remain quiet. Remember the Superferry fiasco on Kauai. A few outspoken people who protested while many on the island seemed to support it. I think the same thing will happen here IF rail goes through.
on October 29,2012 | 01:36PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Jonas Rail in other cities of the US are subsidized by sale taxes. What this means is that the burden of paying for the O&M or rail falls on the shoulders of everuyone in the city. In the case of rail in this island, the O&M of rail are to be financed not by everyone but by a small group of homeowners.
on October 29,2012 | 01:59PM
rsgea wrote:
Ratrase, Phoenix is a city of 1.5 million people and yet, their rail Metro system has a daily ridership of only 41,300.

Using the same ratio for Honolulu Rail, in a city of 950,000 people, daily ridership will be under 30,000.

THAT'S ABOUT 1/4th of Parsons Brinckerhoff's projected 116,300 daily ridership. So thanks for bringing Phoenix Metro up for us to research, Ratase. It confirms how ridiculous PB's projection of 116,300 daily ridership really is.
on October 29,2012 | 06:46PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Never compare Hawaii to Puerto Rico. Big difference, hon.
on October 29,2012 | 08:15AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
NanakuliBoss wrote: "Never compare Hawaii to Puerto Rico. Big difference, hon."

Not as big a difference as comparing us to San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and New York.

Puerto Rico is an island with TWICE our population. Their rail project was planned by Parsons Brinckeroff (just like ours) and the FTA oversaw the project and signed off on it every step of the way. Like ours, it had insanely optimistic ridership numbers that had no basis in reality. And it went way over budget, and didn't have to deal with the issue of massive burial grounds.

Like it or not, the Puerto Rico train is the most similar project to what we are building and it's been a disappointing, unaffordable disaster.
on October 29,2012 | 08:54AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Don't compare Hawaii to Puerto Rico. Their income level is 300% lower then Hawaii. Their government is in shambles. They exist on U.S. Subsidizes.
on October 29,2012 | 10:17AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
So... why aren't they taking the train?
on October 29,2012 | 10:33AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Where would they go on their train? Hardly any jobs. Everything they need are in their barrios. They do not have development like Oahu. They are not building cities and universities. They are stagnant. Did they have a GET? Well?? Do they have record numbers of tourist? No. Don't compare Puerto Rico to Hawaii, they are not even a State.
on October 29,2012 | 03:36PM
rsgea wrote:
Kalaheo1 hit the nail on the head, NB. Those populations with the lowest incomes (e.g. Puerto Rico, India, China, etc.) tend to ride trains much more than those with higher incomes (e.g. U.S., etc.). So you would expect Puerto Rico to have a high ridership of rail.

And yet, look at the actual ridership in Puerto Rico, vs. what Parsons Brinckerhoff projected for them:

Projected: 110,000 per day

Actual: 40,000

Honolulu, with one-half of Puerto Rico's population, and a population with much higher income, is projected (by Parsons Brinckerhoff) to get 116,300 daily ridership for Rail.

If Puerto Rico, with 2-million population and low incomes can only get 40,000 daily ridership, what's the chance of Honolulu, with 1-million population with higher incomes of getting 116,300 daily ridership?

SLIM TO NONE, with NONE being a much more likely case.

If Honolulu Rail is built, it will be lucky to get 30,000 daily ridership.


on October 29,2012 | 01:46PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Kuli nobody except you are comparing Hawaii to Puerto Rico. What were being compared is the island of Oahu against Puerto Rico - not either the entire state of Hawaii nor the Big Island otherwise known as the island of Hawaii.

And where, Kuli did you get this baloney about "Their icone level is 300% than Hawaii.
on October 29,2012 | 02:14PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
ACS medium household income for 2010....Hawaii. 64,345.....Puerto Rico......$18,890. You right KuNO, it's not 300% it's 345% less, good call.
on October 29,2012 | 03:43PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Kuli I asked where you got your 300% meaning the source of your information because providing numbers in your comment is considered just a number you made up unless you provide a link.

But the baloney in your comment is that you were comparing Puerto Rico to Hawaii and not Oahu. But most of all, you were comparing economic data whereas the premise of the discussion is the rail project in Puerto Rico against the rail project in Oahu.
on October 29,2012 | 05:37PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Kuli see how inept are the guys hired to promote rail in this forum like this particular heckler who says "Never compare Hawaii to Puero Rico. Big difference, hon." Hawaii is a state comprising several islands that can not be compared to Puerto Rico which is only a single island.

One of the islands in the state of Hawaii is also called Hawaii or the Big Island. But that is not where Rail is going to be built but in the island of Oahu.
on October 29,2012 | 02:07PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
KuNO, Puerto Rico has several islands......Puerto Rico has the worst homicide rates in The World!!! Who would want to even be on their streets. Like I said , Don't compare Hawaii to Puerto Rico, hon...big diff.
on October 29,2012 | 04:01PM
pakeheat wrote:
So then NanakuliBoss, which State would come close to Oahu rail with similar number in population and is an island? Many of your proponents like to compare rail with other cities and countries, please enlighten us?
on October 29,2012 | 08:39PM
kahuku01 wrote:
rsgea: By the way, majority of the tourist will be renting a car because it gives them greater flexibility on when and where they will be traveling. Why would the tourist ride the train within a limited 20 miles on the Leeward side when there's many points of interest that cars have access to. I agree with you that Ratcliff's logic will not be the norm.
on October 29,2012 | 05:06PM
false wrote:
Why in hell's bells would tourists come to Hawai`i to use Rail. They have Rail at home. They come to see the sights not the unsightly.
on October 29,2012 | 05:57AM
dedicatedteacher7 wrote:
They would waste too much of their precious time to ride a bus as well, which means the rental car will still be used.
on October 29,2012 | 06:34AM
Malani wrote:
Wrong. It cost to much to rent many tourist said because they are on a limited budget and have said that the gas is so expensive here.
on October 29,2012 | 08:18AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Just where do you think tourists would go by rail? Seriously. If they're in Waikiki, they'd have to take a taxi or bus to the Mall to get on a seatless train so they can lurch through 20 stops in 20 miles and finally get off in Ho'opili.

Do you think visitors to Texas drive to the airport to take the airport tram around to the different concourses for fun?
on October 29,2012 | 08:58AM
Kuniarr wrote:
What's this baloney about "it costs too much to rent"? There are tourist buses that go directly to tourists locations. Why are you rail guys so eager to use Tourist to make rail look good? Have any of you seen a single tourist riding the bus today?
on October 29,2012 | 01:20PM
localguy wrote:
Malani - No, you are wrong. Depending on where the tourist comes from, our gas price is a bargain compared to Japan, Europe, some other countries. Not to mention our over priced hotels. Sad to say tourists know they will be over charged here on everything they buy so they budget for it and cut way back on not buying items, just spend the money to enjoy the sights.
on October 29,2012 | 04:55PM
Ratrase wrote:
All those tourists have to rent cars to get around.
on October 29,2012 | 07:38AM
hilocal wrote:
Ratrase, most of those tourists ride tourist buses and our public buses. Driving in a strange city, especially if English is foreign, is difficult; riding a bus is easier and cheaper as well.
on October 29,2012 | 09:30AM
peanutgallery wrote:
IRT Toby Allen: Toby the lottery idea has failed miserably everywhere it's been tried. It puts the burden of paying for public education on just one group, and that group always turns out to be the one that can least afford to gamble. Calif. did this, telling everyone they would have education second to none. Look at what they've got now. Their public education is in shambles and their state is near bankrupt. Every state that has done this doesn't just add to the state budget, they recognize the windfall and shift the budgeted funds to other things. Politicians are like drug addicts. They can never get enough of taxpayer dollars. Your idea is a bad one. It's been tried and it failed.
on October 29,2012 | 03:48AM
wiliki wrote:
This shows that gambling is not a sustainable revenue source for the public.
on October 29,2012 | 06:10AM
LittleEarl_01 wrote:
IRT Art Ratcliffe's ltr, "Millions of tourists will use rail transit." Art, you are so wrong! Remember when the rail route had to be changed at the airport due to it's interference to one of the runways? That lengthened the distance from the airport to the rail station, thereby negating it's use by visitors. Who wants to drag, push, pull suitcases from the baggage claim area to Nimitz Hwy rail staion, especially after being on an airplane for hours on end, when all one has to do is board a bus right at the airport? And it's a courtesy bus at that!
on October 29,2012 | 03:51AM
wiliki wrote:
This affected a station on Nimitz near the end of the RUNWAY. I don't think that the airport station was affected. Tourist would use the airport station.
on October 29,2012 | 06:12AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Baloney. You rail guys make grandiose claim about rail for what it is not. The idea of millions of tourists taking the train is extreme exaggeration.
on October 29,2012 | 07:06AM
Malani wrote:
What is there to see if one were to ride a cho cho train in Hawaii? Concrete?
on October 29,2012 | 08:21AM
Poidogs wrote:
Millions of tourists ride our bus system every year. (Not that you have ever proven to ride public transit in your life, but…) The #42 in the morning and afternoon is always packed with tourists going to Pearl Harbor. They could get to PH in half the time compared to using the bus alone.
on October 29,2012 | 10:51AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Poidogs wrote: "They could get to PH in half the time compared to using the bus alone."

Yea them!

So now the purpose of train is to make it easier for visitors to transfer from buses to the train at the mall to get to Pearl Harbor a little faster? C'mon guys, now you're just being silly.
on October 29,2012 | 12:15PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
The rail stop will be as close as the present bus stop at Pearl. The Rail would put more people and $$ into that area. The extra $$ to the Federal Parks would boost PH and make it more accessible to the millions of visitors.
on October 29,2012 | 01:16PM
DPK wrote:
nkboss: Will it also give every tourist a pony?
on October 29,2012 | 01:27PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
You guys should just drop the "tourists will totally use the train from the mall to Ho'opili" and go back to bashing Bem and making personal attacks on everyone who recognizes rail for the terrible plan it is.

The limiting factor with Pearl Harbor is the number of seats available for the tour, not the visitors ability to get there. All you're really hoping to do is make lines longer.
on October 29,2012 | 02:24PM
Ronin006 wrote:
Art Ratcliffe has not done enough research or given enough thought to tourist riding the rail. A look at rail station locations will show rail will benefit little from tourists. One false assumption is that many tourists will take rail between the airport and their hotels. Really? The rail station is not at the airport but nearby on Aolele Street. How are tourists supposed to get there with their luggage? If they are able to somehow get there, the train will take to as far as Ala Moana Center only. They will then have to take a taxi or shuttle bus to their hotels in Waikiki. Who is their right mind will go through that hassle? I believe I am correct in saying most tourists will know in advance about the hassle of using rail and will instead get to their hotels the way they do now – by taxi or shuttle busses. Another false assumption is that many tourists will use rail to go to the Arizona memorial. That is not likely to happen because rail does not stop near the memorial. The closest stops to the memorial are at the intersection of Kam Highway and Radford Drive and near the stadium, both being a long walk to the memorial. I can’t image where else rail will take tourists.
on October 29,2012 | 10:28AM
Kalli wrote:
If millions of tourists ride the rail where are they going? Rail stops at Ala Moana shopping center they will still have to catch a cab to Waikiki. If that section is the one that is going to pay for itself and reduce taxi's congesting the streets, why don't they start building it there instead of in a vacant field in the middle of no where? Because it isn't true.
on October 29,2012 | 05:17AM
wiliki wrote:
The hotels didn't want the train in Waikiki. They plan to send shuttle buses to the Center. Great way to promote the rest of the area near the rail and their hotel. I suspect shuttle will eventually even pickup from other stations like the Aloha Tower.
on October 29,2012 | 06:15AM
pakeheat wrote:
baloney wiliki, they would just use the cab from the airport and go straight to Waikiki without worrying about carrying their luggage and transferring.
on October 29,2012 | 07:54AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Baloney pake, the Asian countries use rail from the airport. Only the super rich use limo.
on October 29,2012 | 10:21AM
Kuniarr wrote:
Name a single Asian country that has rail in the airport. And provide a link so we can confirm that you are not making up stuff.
on October 29,2012 | 05:50PM
false wrote:
Watch Amazing Race Much?
on October 29,2012 | 07:23PM
pakeheat wrote:
Wow Kuniarr it's almost 9pm and we got no rebuttal from NanakuliBoss, I think he ran out of research material? lol
on October 29,2012 | 08:43PM
loquaciousone wrote:
Yes....we wouldn't want trains running in high density areas. We want them out in Kapolei where the mongoose and rats are the population base.
on October 29,2012 | 08:51AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Wow loq, you are out of line.
on October 29,2012 | 10:22AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Have you seen where the rail terminates? Vacant Ag land. No people. Just rats and mongoose and the occasional pumpkin.
on October 29,2012 | 12:17PM
loquaciousone wrote:
NB claims to live out there but he's never seen a mongoose and a rat.
on October 29,2012 | 12:35PM
Kuniarr wrote:
NB or Kuli actually resides in an island other than Oahu.
on October 29,2012 | 01:22PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Seen slot of rats and mongoose on these blogs.lol.
on October 29,2012 | 04:04PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
wiliki wrote: "The hotels didn't want the train in Waikiki. They plan to send shuttle buses to the Center. Great way to promote the rest of the area near the rail and their hotel. I suspect shuttle will eventually even pickup from other stations like the Aloha Tower."

So wait. You're telling me that giant hotel chains had the option of getting the Hawaii taxpayer and federal government putting in a a multimillion dollar train to take people directly from the airport to their hotels and turned it down?! And you're saying they did this, because they would rather create and maintain their own fleet of shuttle vans instead and drive them to the mall every 10 minutes all day long??

I don't know if you are aware of this, but they currently have the option of running airport shuttles but DON'T. I don't think the major hotel chains are interested in "promoting the rest of the area" OR providing a free shuttle service, or they would already be doing so. I do think that you like making stuff up.
on October 29,2012 | 09:05AM
Ronin006 wrote:
Wiliki, you need to do your homework before posting comments. The Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association, previously known by the Hawaii Hotel Association or some such thing, was behind rail 100% when rail was proposed in the 1980s. At that time, the proposed rail route was between West Oahu near Ko Olina to the UH in Manoa with a spur down Kuhio Avenue to Kapahulu Avenue. The Association lobbied hard for the spur through Waikiki. Any hotel that plans to shuttle to and from the Ala Moana Center is doing so not because they want to, it is because that is where the rail line will end, if it ever is built.
on October 29,2012 | 10:59AM
pcman wrote:
Taxi fare from Ala Moana to Waikiki is $20,$40 round trip. plus tip. Round trip taxi fare from HNL to Waikiki is equal to the cost of car rental. So why catch the rail?
on October 29,2012 | 09:17AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Pc,you know Hawaii is the most expensive car rental place,right. Gas,insurance,parking, trunck lock damage etc. Big bucks. Train, pull on luggage, get off Ala Mo's, premium coffee stop, shuttle Waikiki, poolside drink. Ahhhh.
on October 29,2012 | 10:26AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
NanakuliBoss wrote: "Train, pull on luggage, get off Ala Mo's, premium coffee stop, shuttle Waikiki, poolside drink. Ahhhh."

You guys are hilarious! Don't you think you may have left out a step or two there? :) So now the train from Ho'opili to the mall is so tourists can enjoy a complicated, slow, and expensive way to use the train to get somewhere where the rail doesn't even run???

If the hotels were interested in running free shuttles to the airport, they would be doing it already. THEY ARE NOT.
on October 29,2012 | 12:09PM
loquaciousone wrote:
Dr. Zeus wrote the Cat in the Hat and NB wrote the Hack in the Back.
on October 29,2012 | 12:36PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Our buses does not and can not accommodate luggage, don't they?
on October 29,2012 | 02:18PM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
The Hawaii Tourist Association will make the Ala Mo to Waiks shuttle happen. Less cars in Waikiki, less parking stalls, more allocations of space for $$ making ventures like stores,restraunts,entertainment venues, beach service and premier hotel rooms! Imagine Waikiki as a pedestrian friendly destination.
on October 29,2012 | 04:10PM
Kuniarr wrote:
Kuli that's just a lot of baloney. An argument based on "will make" is meaningless and just ludicrous.

Making a prediction of what will happen in the future is just hogwash.
on October 29,2012 | 05:47PM
control wrote:
IRT Art Ratcliffe - the anti's DONT want tourists to ride the rail or any other form of mass transit. It gets tour and taxi operator supporter panties in a twist. Just check out the supports of Stop Rail Now - many with their fingers in the tourism industry. That's also why the current bus system has a 'no luggage' rule. They talk big about free markets and such but they can't handle the competition.
on October 29,2012 | 05:38AM
wiliki wrote:
Baloney.... tourists will take taxi back to the hotel if they're in a rush. They wont wait for a shuttle.
on October 29,2012 | 06:16AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Baloney.... tourists will take taxi back to the hotel if they're in a rush. They wont wait for a rail.
on October 29,2012 | 07:48AM
Malani wrote:
tourist will take the bus back to the hotel to save money.
on October 29,2012 | 08:22AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Malani wrote: "tourist will take the bus back to the hotel to save money."

What bus are you talking about?!?!

A family of 4 from Kansas gets off the airplane and goes to baggage claim. They pick up their 9000 pounds of luggage. Please tell me how they get to their hotel in Waikiki using the train that goes between Ho'opili the mall. For bonus points, explain why they would want to put themselves through that.

For triple bonus points, tell us how much that shuttle bus, train, bus trip would cost for all four and how long it would take.
on October 29,2012 | 12:25PM
Poidogs wrote:
Rushing on a vacation seems like an oxymoron.
on October 29,2012 | 10:53AM
pakeheat wrote:
thanks wiliki, you just reaffirm our argument they won't use rail.
on October 29,2012 | 07:56AM
loquaciousone wrote:
heh heh heh...
on October 29,2012 | 08:12AM
wiliki wrote:
The concern shown by Andrea W. Bell for city services seems alarmist. The city is spending record amounts in the face of decreasing revenues.
on October 29,2012 | 06:01AM
rsgea wrote:
wiliki, they still aren't doing enough for our sewer systems. And what about: regularly-busting water mains?, dilapidated roads?, poorly maintained parks?, slow permitting and planning?, understaffed police, fire, & emergency services?, hit-and-mis trash pickup services?, inadequate trash disposal services and faciiities?, inhumane homeless policies a& programs, and TheBus & Hand-van staffing , services, & maintenance cutbacks??

BEN CAYETANO WILL PUT FIRST THINGS FIRST!


on October 29,2012 | 06:17AM
Kuniarr wrote:
wiliki, that is exactly the problem with adding Rail O&M - increasing spending in the face of decreasing revenue which in turn means the city has to borrow which means also that taxes and fees have to be raised.
on October 29,2012 | 06:59AM
loquaciousone wrote:
BLALONEYYE'
on October 29,2012 | 08:12AM
bender wrote:
Art Ratcliffe doesn't understand that tourists rent cars so they can circle island. Rail doesn't and will never do that. But the bus system does and many of our visitors do use that. Tourists aren't going to head out to Kapolei, there's nothing to draw them there. And they aren't going to ride rail from the airport to Ala Moana because they won't be allowed to bring their luggage onboard and they will still have to find their way to the hotel from Ala Moana. We might see some people use rail to get to the Arizona Memorial Visitors Center but only if that is the only place the plan on going to that day. If they have other plans, then they ain't going to head back into town to get a car to go other places, they will simply start out their day with a car. The touristsm angle on rail was discussed before and discarded.
on October 29,2012 | 06:02AM
Pacej001 wrote:
Voting machines? A vast rightwing alphabetization conspiracy? Give me a break. This fellow has gone to a place beyond irrational paranoia.
on October 29,2012 | 06:06AM
Rapanui00 wrote:
Rail is finished because of three reasons: Ben Cayetano's victory Burial issue Federal lawsuit where we are all waiting Judge Teshima's ruling where it is definitely leaning to killing rail! Now lets try and make a better Hawaii free of the "machine" and all its corrupt entities ie Unions, crooked politicians, and other speciali interests! Bring sanity back to the Islands... VOTE FOR BEN!
on October 29,2012 | 06:16AM
hilocal wrote:
Rapanui00, we anti-rail posters hope you're right, but the latest poll indicates PRP's lies and distortions have swung the voters to Caldwell's side.
on October 29,2012 | 09:50AM
Jonas wrote:
We will see. Looks like Ben won't be in power. And I'm fine with that.
on October 29,2012 | 01:52PM
palani wrote:
Agreed. If anything, moving Obama's name from the middle of the list, where it rightfully belonged, to the end where it is obviously more visible, seems to have been a deliberate effort to help him, not Romney. David Chappell should look to his own party's hsitory of ballot manipulation and corruption.
on October 29,2012 | 06:24AM
Bdpapa wrote:
I voted! It did not make a bit of difference in which order the candidates were. Obama should have been listed ahead of Romney, but it made no difference. In the future, they just need to fix it.
on October 29,2012 | 06:52AM
hilocal wrote:
Pacej001, there's been good evidence for lte writer David Chappell's assertions. It's far from "irrational paranoia." It's so long ago I don't recall the sources and details, but at that time, in 2000, I followed the issue and was surprised at how good the evidence was.
on October 29,2012 | 09:46AM
Pacej001 wrote:
Somehow he links the mis-alphabetization of Obama, in the most pro-Obama state in the Union, to voting machine fraud and the republicans. Doesn't this sound a little crazy to you? As far as machine manipulation, I've heard those rumors from both sides, plus other examples.
on October 29,2012 | 10:59AM
donthigpen wrote:
Mr. Ratcliffe. If built, the rail will run from Kapolei to Aloha Tower. You are counting tourists to meet the 2 mil mark right? Ok, so a tourist takes a taxi from their Waikiki hotel to the rail station at Aloha Tower. What's their destination? The airport, Pearl Ridge, Waipahu, Kapolei, etc. I just returned to the island after an 8 year absense and I don't know of a major tourist attraction at any of those destinations.
on October 29,2012 | 06:12AM
Kuniarr wrote:
IRT Art Ratcliffe, it is ridiculous to even think that 100 tourists would ride the train much more millions. why would any tourist ride the train?

There are tourist buses that will take tourists to interesting spots so why ride the train that won't bring them to any place of interest? Nor take the train and then the bus?
on October 29,2012 | 06:51AM
Malani wrote:
Tourist have said that the tour buses are very expensive and if and only if they want to get to the place they want to visit then they will take the tour bus.
on October 29,2012 | 08:25AM
pakeheat wrote:
Tour buses are expensive, I didn't know they charge tourists for the ride, I always thought it was included in the tour package? When I went on a trip on the mainland and wanted to take a tour, the price is for the tour and bus fare is not separate, LOL.
on October 29,2012 | 08:47PM
loquaciousone wrote:
See what you did Wayne Yoshioka? You cut bus service so much on the North Shore that Art Ratcliffe of Haleiwa doesn't know what those big yellow things are. I hope he doesn't go to the bus and try to order some fish tacos.
on October 29,2012 | 07:14AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
"Millions of tourists will use rail transit". Hey Art, rail in Europe and Japan travels all over the place. Our dingbat system will go from Downtown to Kapolei. Your figure of millions is something you just made up. You don't know for sure.
on October 29,2012 | 07:20AM
Ratrase wrote:
Just for the record the byline "millions of tourists will use rail" was made up by the newspaper.
on October 29,2012 | 07:51AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Yes but they were using Art's math.
on October 29,2012 | 08:13AM
Publicbraddah wrote:
"City infrastructure already damaged". Andrea, like thousands of others I share your exact sentiment. Common sense seems to evade our elected officials which is why I've already voted for Cayetano.
on October 29,2012 | 07:22AM
Pukele wrote:
No tourist with a bag to pull after a 5 hour flight is going to walk past the parking lot to wait for a train that takes them to Ala Moana Center and then go down to the street level and wait for a bus that takes them to Waikiki and then find their hotel because that option will take them three times as long as catching the convenient Airport Bus or cab. The difference in price is very little compared to the price of their vacation. The cab rates are flat rates so if you have tow or three people it gets cheaper.
on October 29,2012 | 07:31AM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
"Millions of tourists will use rail transit" Art Ratcliffe, Haleiwa

Mr Ratcliffe
I don't think Ho'opili is going to be the tourist attraction that you seem to think it will be.
on October 29,2012 | 07:45AM
loquaciousone wrote:
I hear the wild life out there can be awesome.....rats that chase cats and mongoose bigger than Dobermans. Maybe Animal Kingdom might consider a reality show in Kapolei.
on October 29,2012 | 08:15AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
Out there?
on October 29,2012 | 10:32AM
pakeheat wrote:
Art Ratcliffe, you are so funny, glad you aren't on anti-railers side with you nonsense letter, millions of tourists will use it, and further more you like to compare Europe and Japan, oh another silly comparison to bullet trains, apples and oranges Art. Do more homework next time.
on October 29,2012 | 07:47AM
loquaciousone wrote:
I think that we're all picking on Art too much. Having said that "KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK".
on October 29,2012 | 08:16AM
NanakuliBoss wrote:
I'm sure anyone writing for rail knows they'll run the gauntlet by the anti troll bullies.
on October 29,2012 | 10:33AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Did you get them all out yet or are they still scratching around where the sun don't shine?
on October 29,2012 | 10:36AM
Kuniarr wrote:
I'm sure anyone writing against rail knows they'll run the gauntlet by the rail troll bullies.
on October 29,2012 | 01:25PM
pakeheat wrote:
anti troll bullies? Try Civil Beat and you will know where the bullies are, not the anti-railers.
on October 29,2012 | 01:31PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Of all the silly reasons we hear about the usefulness of the rail, one that always comes up is how we can use it for evacuation in the event of a natural disaster. I'd like to point out that the very first thing New York did in preparation for Hurricane Sandy was stop running their trains.
on October 29,2012 | 07:54AM
Malani wrote:
Miss Wee, It's good that our kids are starting to get healthy lunches. But it comes with a price if the child wants seconds. A family member son's in elementary school pays $2.50 for his lunch. But for him to get a 2nd dish he was told it would cost $5.00. His mother went to the school to find out if it was true, It's true. $5.00 for the same amount of food as the first. Something is wrong here.
on October 29,2012 | 07:57AM
hawaiikone wrote:
the first lunch was already heavily subsidized, and nutritionally satisfactory. If children, who are in the midst of an obesity epidemic, want more, they should pay closer to the actual cost.
on October 29,2012 | 02:36PM
Kalaheo1 wrote:
Of all the silly reasons we hear about the usefulness of the rail, one that always comes up is how we can use it for evacuation in the event of a natural disaster. I'd like to point out that the very first thing New York did in preparation for Hurricane Sandy was stop running their trains.
on October 29,2012 | 08:02AM
loquaciousone wrote:
But we can all stand on the elevated rail's roof to do vertical evacuations. Oh yea I forgot, in Indonesia the tsunami took the trains up the mountainside a mile or two.
on October 29,2012 | 08:18AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
I read that the Waipahu Chamber of Commerce was advising members how to prepare for the hordes of Japanese tourists who will be arriving by rail within the next 12 years.
on October 29,2012 | 08:24AM
ready2go wrote:
The only way a fixed rail system can work is to increase taxes or fees and fares to pay for the system. In Japan, their rail and subway systems are very successful due to their huge poplulation base (Tokyo with 13 million people? ) and their hundreds of TOLL ROAD collection system. Every vehicle/ driver has to pay a fee( toll fee of $5 US or so & commercial vehicles pay more @ on or off reamps) to their freeways in every town. The millions they collect in turn pays for their extensive rail system and "pot hole free" roads. So Honolulu fans -- get ready for TOLL ROADS! Nothing's free in life!
on October 29,2012 | 08:26AM
Malani wrote:
Be great if the Staradvertiser would take a survey from the tourist out in Waikiki to see what and if they would ride. Bus, Rail, Taxi, or Tour Bus.
on October 29,2012 | 08:27AM
ready2go wrote:
Lotteries and gambling have not helped the State of Nevada nor Las Vegas financially. They are both financially "broke"! So it's hard to believe these businesses will help Hawaii. Tourism is a better industry to promote instead.
on October 29,2012 | 08:32AM
pcman wrote:
Mr Balcher. thanks for the warning. That should lead to the advice to carry a few sheets of paper towels with you in your back pocket or purse so you can use them where there are none. Forcing businesses to use paper towels would be counterproductive and lead to higher costs for their services and goods.
on October 29,2012 | 08:43AM
DABLACK wrote:
The election will determine our future. What do we do?? Build the rail high enough so the riders' feet is not in the sewage and water thats leaking all over ! The greedy politicians/developers/builders are raking the money in. Continue to build houses...but no enlarge the sewers. Need more akamai people making our laws here....not greedy people. The developement of Ewa beach was a shambles....put up the homes first, then widen the roads and build the by-pass to H-1. lol !!
on October 29,2012 | 09:06AM
saveparadise wrote:
Art Ratcliffe, if you are a tourist why would you catch this train? Where would you be going?
on October 29,2012 | 10:15AM
Maneki_Neko wrote:
Waipahu baybee......get some of that Max's chicken baybee. Thousands of tourists a day will be riding the rails to Waipahu. It will be like Kailua without the beach and nice ambiance.
on October 29,2012 | 11:33AM
loquaciousone wrote:
Art lives in Haleiwa and has not seen a bus for so long he's forgotten that Honolulu had a bus system. Sometimes when I'm waiting for my bus I forget what the bus looks like too. The last time I had to file a missing person's report for the bus driver.
on October 29,2012 | 12:40PM
WizardOfMoa wrote:
To all those the delightful " comedians," especially loquaciousone, thanks for the funny but common sense rebuttals to all the die hard pro- rail commentators. You all just made my day!
on October 29,2012 | 10:30AM
Ronin006 wrote:
Theresa Wee is correct about 1 in 10 children in the US being obese or overweight 30 years ago and today it is 1 in 3, but she is wrong to think that healthier lunches at school will do anything to stop the obesity epidemic. Thirty years ago there was little government interference in what school children ate, and only 1 in 10 was obese or overweight. Democrats in Congress decided they needed to do something to fight the Battle of the Bulge and began imposing guidelines and regulations directed at school lunch programs, but more kids got fatter and obese. So Congress imposed new guidelines and regulations and threw billions of dollars at programs to fight childhood obesity, but nothing worked. With each new guideline or regulation and with each billion dollars spent on the problem, kids got fatter. History has shown that federal guidelines and regulations and the billions of dollars spent on anti-obesity programs have not worked, so why would anyone believe that recently announced changes in school lunch programs will work? Dream on.
on October 29,2012 | 11:20AM
hawaiikone wrote:
As is already being done, if a child wants another lunch charge them the full price. At least if parents allow their kids to overeat they'll be paying for it.
on October 29,2012 | 02:40PM
Dimbulb wrote:
IRT Art Ratcliffe Haleiwa There is no reason for tourists to ride the train. There is nothing at the end of the line for them to do other than ride it back to the beginning. Better hope no one needs to go to the bathroom either. Oh, enjoy standing up and grabbing something so you don't fall down when the train is starting and stopping. The only people that will benefit from this is the contractors, and then the current riders of the bus which will probably not be around when it starts. The big loosers will be the taxpayers.
on October 29,2012 | 01:22PM
islandsun wrote:
Don Horner doesnt care about future city issues. He has his mansion on the north shore and can afford whatever anyone throws at him. But for the majority, its going to be hell going forward.
on October 29,2012 | 04:02PM
localguy wrote:
Millions of tourists will use rail transit according to Art Ratcliffe. Ok, lets see what primary tourist attractions will be along the rail route. Still looking, no, not north shore, PCC, Hanauma Bay, Luau centers no, gee, why would a tourist ride rail? Nice try Art but Hawaii will never have the expansive rail Japan has. Tourists can't depend on the bus thanks to bureaucrats messing up the routes. Rental cars are the only way to go where you want, stay as long as you want, do what you want. Just another posting rookie.
on October 29,2012 | 04:45PM
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